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Jacko
So who's following the much anticipated winter olympics from Vancouver this year? I'm do follow them mainly because of Ice Hockey and because this is the last time I will get to see the old superstars like Selanne, Saku Koivu on the field. Apart from Team Finland it's also nice to see all the best players from NHL playing there. My guess is that Team Russia will take the gold medal and mob the floor with Canada. Of course there are great players in Canada but still, those russians are going to be a challenge for them.
Masta
Russia isn't going to beat us this year, they'll be a challenge as always of course but this is our home ice and Russia hasn't fared well against us on our turf the last 2 decades or so. Russia hasn't won gold since the 92 games under the 'Unified Team' banner when they iced their USSR team built before the collapse in which they had the choice of the best players from dozens of countries rather than a single one.

The Russians are good and have a few very talented players but the past few games have shown that those few superstars aren't enough to lift the whole team to Gold status. Since the Unified Team's gold win in '92 Russia has only managed silver and bronze, it will stay that way this year I believe.

I was worried the guys might hold back a bit being worried about injury but they showed in their first game they have no fear of taking their men down, and taking them down hard at that. One of the most physical Olympic hockey matches I've seen, and 99% of that physicality was from one team. Can't wait to see Canada play U.S and Russia, they actually give back the physical kind of play team Canada delivers and should offer entertaining games.

And Canada's women are gonna take gold for sure, they're only outscoring their competition 41 - 2 in 3 games so far. Will have to see how team USA does against them in the final though as they're the only team coming close to matching Canada's group domination(currently outscoring their competition 25-1 in 2 games), but they'll lose and Canada will take the gold.

Also, current total medal standings top five:

U.S - 14
Germany - 10
France - 7
Canada - 6
Korea - 5 (Norway and Austria are also tied at 5, but Korea has 3 golds to place them ahead)

A lackluster performance so far from the home team but at least we broke the curse and we still have many more opportunities to keep some more gold in this country. That first day of ski jumping that all the Canadians missed qualification on had me thinking the curse was gonna stand strong, thank god that proved false.
Jacko
As you're a Canadian could you mention some of the pros of Team Finland? I'd say our attacking is ok but defence lacks the strong and confident grip.
Masta
Other than Selanne and Saku Koivu there's Niklas Hagman, Mikka Koivu, Olli Jokinen, Jarkko Ruutu, Sami Salo, Joni Pitkanen, Toni Lydman, Valtteri Filippula, Kimmo Timonen, Jere Lehtinen and Tuomo Ruutu(I might be forgetting one or two).

And of course the Kipper Mikka Kiprusoff, Niklas Backstrom and Antero Nittymaki in goal.

As far as skill goes Finland has a stacked deck with a majority pro lineup, but as you mentioned their defensive game is not the greatest. Their goal-tending could save them though, it certainly has the talent.

Most European teams are the same way, European hockey development focuses mainly on skill and speed of offense and their goal-tending rather than physical play or strong defensive play.

North American hockey = 70% physical and 30% skill

European hockey = 90% skill and 10% physical

Russian hockey = 50% skill and 50% physical

Usually when playing Russia, the U.S or Canada European teams don't do well because while they have skilled offensive talent it's hard for that talent to do much if it's laying flat on the ice after getting ground into the boards or getting laid out in open ice by guys built like freight trains who have spent their entire hockey careers doing just that.

So the play tends to be in their end most of the time and if you are always in your own end eventually you'll pay for it, even if you have best defensive line and goalie in the tournament.

Finland is one of the better teams in the games and they'll pick up a medal(or they deserve it anyways) but I don't see them getting past the U.S or Canada for a Gold. Would love to see them play spoiler and take out the U.S or Russia though. smile.gif
Jacko
QUOTE (Masta @ Feb 18 2010, 07:59 PM) *
Other than Selanne and Saku Koivu there's Niklas Hagman, Mikka Koivu, Olli Jokinen, Jarkko Ruutu, Sami Salo, Joni Pitkanen, Toni Lydman, Valtteri Filippula, Kimmo Timonen, Jere Lehtinen and Tuomo Ruutu(I might be forgetting one or two).

And of course the Kipper Mikka Kiprusoff, Niklas Backstrom and Antero Nittymaki in goal.

As far as skill goes Finland has a stacked deck with a majority pro lineup, but as you mentioned their defensive game is not the greatest. Their goal-tending could save them though, it certainly has the talent.

Most European teams are the same way, European hockey development focuses mainly on skill and speed of offense and their goal-tending rather than physical play or strong defensive play.

North American hockey = 70% physical and 30% skill

European hockey = 90% skill and 10% physical

Russian hockey = 50% skill and 50% physical

Usually when playing Russia, the U.S or Canada European teams don't do well because while they have skilled offensive talent it's hard for that talent to do much if it's laying flat on the ice after getting ground into the boards or getting laid out in open ice by guys built like freight trains who have spent their entire hockey careers doing just that.

So the play tends to be in their end most of the time and if you are always in your own end eventually you'll pay for it, even if you have best defensive line and goalie in the tournament.

Finland is one of the better teams in the games and they'll pick up a medal(or they deserve it anyways) but I don't see them getting past the U.S or Canada for a Gold. Would love to see them play spoiler and take out the U.S or Russia though. smile.gif



I would love to see us in the finals but as you said we dont have physicality of your team but we might drop US this year because we lost them last year in Switzerland. And hopefully we'll beat Sweden this Saturday. laugh.gif What I envy in the Canadian style of hockey which us Finns should have is the physicality and the slapshots. You guys fire a lot and your slapshots are very powerfull. I guess in your country they train slapshots from the early ages but in Finland they dont which sucks.
bOnEs
i missed the only event i like to watch during the winter olympics... curling...
Massacre
People watch the Olympics?
Jacko
Well not all the events, mainly ice hockey.
TreeFitty
I don't go out of my way to watch, but hockey and the halfpipe are the only events that interest me.
DonkeyTits
I've watched most of the Olympic games. I'm surprised/disappointed with the amount of athletes that are falling in every sport. I watched paired figure skating the other night and every pair except one fell at least once during their run.
Also, the biathlon is old and outdated and I feel they need to purge it from the games.

Just watched the US hockey team beat Norway 6 to 1. The American goalie had this paintjob on his helmet, it made me lol:

Masta
QUOTE (Jacko90 @ Feb 18 2010, 11:16 AM) *
QUOTE (Masta @ Feb 18 2010, 07:59 PM) *
Other than Selanne and Saku Koivu there's Niklas Hagman, Mikka Koivu, Olli Jokinen, Jarkko Ruutu, Sami Salo, Joni Pitkanen, Toni Lydman, Valtteri Filippula, Kimmo Timonen, Jere Lehtinen and Tuomo Ruutu(I might be forgetting one or two).

And of course the Kipper Mikka Kiprusoff, Niklas Backstrom and Antero Nittymaki in goal.

As far as skill goes Finland has a stacked deck with a majority pro lineup, but as you mentioned their defensive game is not the greatest. Their goal-tending could save them though, it certainly has the talent.

Most European teams are the same way, European hockey development focuses mainly on skill and speed of offense and their goal-tending rather than physical play or strong defensive play.

North American hockey = 70% physical and 30% skill

European hockey = 90% skill and 10% physical

Russian hockey = 50% skill and 50% physical

Usually when playing Russia, the U.S or Canada European teams don't do well because while they have skilled offensive talent it's hard for that talent to do much if it's laying flat on the ice after getting ground into the boards or getting laid out in open ice by guys built like freight trains who have spent their entire hockey careers doing just that.

So the play tends to be in their end most of the time and if you are always in your own end eventually you'll pay for it, even if you have best defensive line and goalie in the tournament.

Finland is one of the better teams in the games and they'll pick up a medal(or they deserve it anyways) but I don't see them getting past the U.S or Canada for a Gold. Would love to see them play spoiler and take out the U.S or Russia though. smile.gif



I would love to see us in the finals but as you said we dont have physicality of your team but we might drop US this year because we lost them last year in Switzerland. And hopefully we'll beat Sweden this Saturday. laugh.gif What I envy in the Canadian style of hockey which us Finns should have is the physicality and the slapshots. You guys fire a lot and your slapshots are very powerfull. I guess in your country they train slapshots from the early ages but in Finland they dont which sucks.



Go the way of the Swiss - in the Swiss league 4 of the top 5 teams are coached by Canadians, the national team playing in Vancouver against Team Canada right now is coached by a Canadian holding dual citizenship, and one of their top players is a dual citizen who played in the Juniors for Team Canada a few years back and is now playing against them(he married a Swiss girl and moved there).

Under this Canadian coach the Swiss have gone from 16th place in the world hockey rankings to 7th in just a few years. Love us or hate us you can't deny Canadians know how to develop teams and talent.

And yeah, the hard slap shots are typically a byproduct of our physical game play, in order to be a physical player you need muscle and when you've got muscle and someone to set you up properly you can unload the puck like a cannon.

The Swiss tonight you can tell are being led by a Canadian coach as they are playing straight-up North American hockey, not quite matching Canada for physical play but holding their own better than most expected them too. That being said if not for Hiller in their net it would have been a blow out for us, he's stood on his head a few times tonight.

Going to a shoot-out now and lets hope Hiller gets shaky or we get lucky or something cause this is getting embarrassing now, lol.

EDIT: Canada won! biggrin.gif
0bs3n3
The biathlon is cool although I didn't watch it.

Our coverage is lacklustre. They have it on twice a day (9am and 9pm) for 3 hour intervals and they're both just replays of what happened that day.

Snowboarding was pretty cool though, Americans completely dominated I have to say.
Massacre
QUOTE (DonkeyTits @ Feb 18 2010, 04:46 PM) *
Just watched the US hockey team beat Norway 6 to 1. The American goalie had this paintjob on his helmet, it made me lol:

That looks retarded.

*Leaves America*
Masta
QUOTE (0bs3n3 @ Feb 19 2010, 12:31 AM) *
The biathlon is cool although I didn't watch it.

Our coverage is lacklustre. They have it on twice a day (9am and 9pm) for 3 hour intervals and they're both just replays of what happened that day.

Snowboarding was pretty cool though, Americans completely dominated I have to say.


If you go to www.Vancouver2010.com and scroll down about half way on the right side of the page you'll find a drop down list with stations in countries all over the world offering live coverage online.

Although some of them are BS and only offer recaps rather than live coverage you can find live coverage on most of them, just maybe not from your home country.
Jacko
QUOTE (DonkeyTits @ Feb 19 2010, 01:46 AM) *
I've watched most of the Olympic games. I'm surprised/disappointed with the amount of athletes that are falling in every sport. I watched paired figure skating the other night and every pair except one fell at least once during their run.
Also, the biathlon is old and outdated and I feel they need to purge it from the games.

Just watched the US hockey team beat Norway 6 to 1. The American goalie had this paintjob on his helmet, it made me lol:


Very patriotic to wear that kind of paint job on your helmet. laugh.gif
0bs3n3
So has these games been hyped more than usual?

Seems to me it has, or at least here (Australia) it has. Usually no one takes much notice.
Jacko
I guess there's been a little more hype than usual but that's normal since Olympics are only once in four years. smile.gif
Handsome B Wonderful
QUOTE (0bs3n3 @ Feb 20 2010, 09:10 PM) *
So has these games been hyped more than usual?

Seems to me it has, or at least here (Australia) it has. Usually no one takes much notice.

Yeah, i think it's just us. Nine got all excited by the fact we had a few medal chances. Pity hardly anyone here gives a shit.

Torah Bright got her mormon self a gold medal in halfpipe, so Australia isn't totally hopeless. laugh.gif
Darth Sexy
QUOTE (0bs3n3 @ Feb 19 2010, 04:31 PM) *
The biathlon is cool although I didn't watch it.

Our coverage is lacklustre. They have it on twice a day (9am and 9pm) for 3 hour intervals and they're both just replays of what happened that day.

Snowboarding was pretty cool though, Americans completely dominated I have to say.

Yeah, it's been fucking shit. No hockey at all.

Had the bobsled on at work. The Australian's may as well have not been there, given they flipped it at least twice.
Handsome B Wonderful
Yeah, the lack of hockey is crap. The arse munches force us to watch figure skating instead.

Hopefully we get to at least see the final.
Masta
Canada vs USA hockey tonight.

God I hope the boys play better than last game, team USA has to go down tonight on Canadian soil.

No revenge for Salt Lake this year. smile.gif
Handsome B Wonderful
wow, the Canada v USA match is actually being shown live here.

2-1 to the USA at the end of the 1st. Canada with 19 shots on goal.

TreeFitty
USA! USA! USA!
Masta
Lol, some Americans are already saying it's over cause Canada is one goal behind at the moment. tongue.gif

There's gonna be a lot more goals scored in this game before the end, Canada dominated that period and was getting better as the period went on as they usually do. Brodeur alone cost us those 2 goals, Luongo should have been in net for this one as he earned it with a shutout in the opener whereas Brodeur did not look great in the last game.

I understand he is respected and one of the best ever but this is about winning Gold and when you want to win you play whichever goalie is doing the best at the time not which one has the most career wins, and Luongo is and has been doing better than Brodeur recently. Dumb move to play him, though I can understand him wanting to redeem himself from a poor performance last game his personal motivations should not be a consideration in this - winning should be the only consideration.

Hopefully he doesn't make any more out of character mistakes like that or we will lose this one, and losing when the entire team is giving an effort that should afford them a win but one person costs them it sucks even more. sad.gif

2-2 biggrin.gif

Almost 3-2 Canada. biggrin.gif
TreeFitty
was 4-2, now 4-3 USA. last few minutes counting down.

5-3 on open net with less than a minute left.

GAME OVER! USA! USA! USA!
Handsome B Wonderful
rofl, i just saw the Russian "Aboriginal" dance in the figure skating. Not even close to abo traditional dance. And they nose rubbed at the end. That's maori (and Eskimo) tradition, you gimps.

They are currently coming first...

Also, bad luck Canada.
TreeFitty
aboriginal, eskimo, close enough tongue.gif
Jacko
God dammit we lost our game to the Swedes this morning and we really sucked. Hopefully we can improve our game before facing the Czechs.
Ex-PS Fanboy
Man, people up here were near rioting when we lost. I was out for diner and some bitch nearly smashed a dude with a beer bottle.
Masta
Brodeur cost us that win with his mistakes, everything else in the game went our way. It pisses me off that Brodeur was in net at all, as I said before Luongo has been playing far better than him lately and that is what should dictate who plays.

Not to take away from Miller who stood on his head in the 1st and 3rd periods when USA was outshot 33 - 10 and earned the win for his team.

Brodeur was the only one on Canada's squad that deserved a loss and Miller was the only on USA's squad that really deserved a win, kind of ironic.

QUOTE
rofl, i just saw the Russian "Aboriginal" dance in the figure skating. Not even close to abo traditional dance. And they nose rubbed at the end. That's maori (and Eskimo) tradition, you gimps.



1) We prefer to call those those "Eskimo's" by their proper names now - Inuit.

2) The giant Inukshuk figures(pics below) that were part of the opening ceremony and are part of the general image surrounding Vancouver 2010 are from the Inuit culture.





So I don't think that was a mistake on their part, it was probably an attempt to score some points with the home crowd by tossing in some local aboriginal culture at the end.
bOnEs
US vs. canada for the gold in hockey!!

i'm heading down to the bar to watch this game with a couple of co-workers in about an hour... i hope it's a good one biggrin.gif...
Ex-PS Fanboy
Canada fucking dominates these games. Lets hope the end of the game is as good as the women's one.
Hardcore Ottoman
Canada won. Good game though. I really liked this year's Olympics nonetheless.
Massacre
Are the Olympics fucking done yet? I've about had it with the twenty minute commercials for shit I don't even watch.
bOnEs
it was fucking epic to see the US tie it up with 25 seconds to go... too bad they lost in overtime though...
TreeFitty
meh, US still has the most medals overall. fucking canucks.
Ex-PS Fanboy
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Feb 28 2010, 07:23 PM) *
meh, US still has the most medals overall. fucking canucks.

Whatever, Canada has the most GOLD Medals.
TreeFitty
pssh! bitch please! the most overall is what counts.
Ex-PS Fanboy
I just found these on an Armored Core forum...

bOnEs
QUOTE
E_Z
Posts: 717
Joined: 25-November 06
From: The Raven's Nest
Member No.: 33,730
PSN Name: PS-FANBOY1

OFF TOPIC: i see your playing MAG, huh?

ON TOPIC: at least the americans won the medal count... we have to prove to world every 2 years that we have the best athletes... and this year was definitely a success... thank you queers who figure skate... your country laughs salutes you!!

EDIT: since the playstation network was down, i watched the closing ceremony of the olympics... it was pretty cool to see neil young out there putting a cap on the olympics... great fucking choice, canada... it's definitely better than what the NFL tries to roll out there for the superbowl...
0bs3n3
Yeah I think I'm 50% gayer after watch Johnny Weir figure skating last week.
DiO
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Feb 28 2010, 07:33 PM) *
pssh! bitch please! the most overall is what counts.



No its not.
bOnEs
QUOTE (D-O @ Mar 1 2010, 10:35 AM) *
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Feb 28 2010, 07:33 PM) *
pssh! bitch please! the most overall is what counts.



No its not.

...says the team who won the most gold medals... if you won the most medals, you'd say that is what matters...
Masta
Most Golds is what matters the most.

Every athlete goes to the games to win Gold, they don't go to win Silver or Bronze(with a few exceptions who just wanted any medal period). Silver and Bronze medals are the consolation prizes, Gold is what everyone trains and competes for.

Total medals is important but not as much as total Golds, the difference between the U.S and Canada in these Games is that we were the best at being #1, America was best at being #2 and best at being #3. Congrats USA. smile.gif

Never mind the fact that Canada set records for most Gold's by a host nation and most Gold's for any nation in the history of the Games period.

No matter how you slice it Canada emerged as the top country in these games, even many of the American athletes have stated as much.

Given the amount of money invested in our athletes over the past 4 years meant to ensure as much we damn well should be, the question is how much of that funding is going to continue now that our home soil event has passed and it's on to Russia next time. Already many corporate sponsorships have been canceled or not renewed for many of our athletes and I doubt we'll see another performance like that from Canada's Olympians in 4 years.

I mean I'm sure now that they have a taste for Gold Canada's athletes will push themselves to win even more next time around but I'm sure Russia is dumping money into it's athletics programs just as we did and they will most likely be the ones to beat come 2014. Every host nation always dumps loads of cash on it's athletes to ensure a good performance on home soil, but that funding usually dries up once the Games move on to the next country and it seems Canada will be no different. sad.gif
Bain
QUOTE (Masta @ Mar 1 2010, 11:14 AM) *
Most Golds is what matters the most.

Every athlete goes to the games to win Gold, they don't go to win Silver or Bronze(with a few exceptions who just wanted any medal period). Silver and Bronze medals are the consolation prizes, Gold is what everyone trains and competes for.

Total medals is important but not as much as total Golds, the difference between the U.S and Canada in these Games is that we were the best at being #1, America was best at being #2 and best at being #3. Congrats USA. smile.gif

Never mind the fact that Canada set records for most Gold's by a host nation and most Gold's for any nation in the history of the Games period.

No matter how you slice it Canada emerged as the top country in these games, even many of the American athletes have stated as much.

Given the amount of money invested in our athletes over the past 4 years meant to ensure as much we damn well should be, the question is how much of that funding is going to continue now that our home soil event has passed and it's on to Russia next time. Already many corporate sponsorships have been canceled or not renewed for many of our athletes and I doubt we'll see another performance like that from Canada's Olympians in 4 years.

I mean I'm sure now that they have a taste for Gold Canada's athletes will push themselves to win even more next time around but I'm sure Russia is dumping money into it's athletics programs just as we did and they will most likely be the ones to beat come 2014. Every host nation always dumps loads of cash on it's athletes to ensure a good performance on home soil, but that funding usually dries up once the Games move on to the next country and it seems Canada will be no different. sad.gif


I dont even know what the word is for a person like you....

Do you want us to say America sucks, Canada is the shit every time you enter a topic?


Canada kicked ass at gold, but its obvious the US has more competitors overall that are some of the highest skilled. We all rule, we all suck, it doesnt matter.

Why dont you just write hate mail to every citizen and politician in America and get your values across....
bOnEs
more gold medals means you had better athletes in the events that you won in... more medals means overall, your team had the better athletes... you placed in more events which tells the world that your athletes are some of the best...
Ex-PS Fanboy
QUOTE (bOnEs @ Mar 1 2010, 12:33 AM) *
QUOTE
E_Z
Posts: 717
Joined: 25-November 06
From: The Raven's Nest
Member No.: 33,730
PSN Name: PS-FANBOY1

OFF TOPIC: i see your playing MAG, huh?

No, Raven's Nest is an organization in Armored Core

QUOTE (bOnEs @ Mar 1 2010, 10:43 AM) *
QUOTE (D-O @ Mar 1 2010, 10:35 AM) *
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Feb 28 2010, 07:33 PM) *
pssh! bitch please! the most overall is what counts.



No its not.

...says the team who won the most gold medals... if you won the most medals, you'd say that is what matters...

So, you're jealous we beat you then...
bOnEs
nope, i'm not jealous because, i don't really care for the olympics...
Ex-PS Fanboy
oOk....

Still... Canada is superior, in case anybody didn't know
Masta
QUOTE (Bain @ Mar 1 2010, 11:23 AM) *
QUOTE (Masta @ Mar 1 2010, 11:14 AM) *
Most Golds is what matters the most.

Every athlete goes to the games to win Gold, they don't go to win Silver or Bronze(with a few exceptions who just wanted any medal period). Silver and Bronze medals are the consolation prizes, Gold is what everyone trains and competes for.

Total medals is important but not as much as total Golds, the difference between the U.S and Canada in these Games is that we were the best at being #1, America was best at being #2 and best at being #3. Congrats USA. smile.gif

Never mind the fact that Canada set records for most Gold's by a host nation and most Gold's for any nation in the history of the Games period.

No matter how you slice it Canada emerged as the top country in these games, even many of the American athletes have stated as much.

Given the amount of money invested in our athletes over the past 4 years meant to ensure as much we damn well should be, the question is how much of that funding is going to continue now that our home soil event has passed and it's on to Russia next time. Already many corporate sponsorships have been canceled or not renewed for many of our athletes and I doubt we'll see another performance like that from Canada's Olympians in 4 years.

I mean I'm sure now that they have a taste for Gold Canada's athletes will push themselves to win even more next time around but I'm sure Russia is dumping money into it's athletics programs just as we did and they will most likely be the ones to beat come 2014. Every host nation always dumps loads of cash on it's athletes to ensure a good performance on home soil, but that funding usually dries up once the Games move on to the next country and it seems Canada will be no different. sad.gif


I dont even know what the word is for a person like you....

Do you want us to say America sucks, Canada is the shit every time you enter a topic?


Canada kicked ass at gold, but its obvious the US has more competitors overall that are some of the highest skilled. We all rule, we all suck, it doesnt matter.

Why dont you just write hate mail to every citizen and politician in America and get your values across....


You are joking, right?

This entire Olympics the huge rivalry was Canada vs USA, down to the very last event. This was promoted by the media on both sides of the border.

It's a natural rivalry born of two very similar countries sharing long borders and cultures that transcends just sports.

Pull that stick out of your ass man, this has nothing to do with politics or me hating the American government.

American athletes did well and should be proud of their achievements, but the fact is we owned the Gold this Games and since every athlete dreams of Gold above all else even those athletes aren't brash enough to hawk off the Canadian achievements as quickly as most of their American fans are.

I repeatedly heard and saw Canadians cheering on American athletes in numerous events and I personally left messages of congrats via the Olympic forums for a few of the American athletes(and a 'good game' message for team USA after the gold match for womens hockey), but all I've seen and heard from non-Olympian Americans since the games ended last night is how America did better than Canada cause you got more overall medals.

During the hockey game I tried to wish the American fans at the bar good luck but all I got was "fuck you, you're going down pussies" and similar hateful crap from them. Luckily they escalated to physical violence after the first period and were tossed before the 2nd began and the rest of the night was peaceful and fun.

I got home and went through some chat logs from a site streaming the game I'm on and saw 99% of the American fans on there having acted the exact same way with their trollish and hateful comments.

Then I come on here and see the same argument and of course I decided to add my 2 cents.

I have no doubt that there are many decent Americans out there, they just aren't well known because they haven't discovered booze or the internet yet... America gets a bad rep because it's dumbest and most arrogant citizens are also it's most vocal on the world wide web.

I don't have a problem with Americans, I have a problem with asshole Americans. More so than I have a problem with asshole Canadians because asshole Americans tend to be far more annoying and 'in your face'. Asshole Frenchmen are the worst but oddly given how much people talk about them I have only actually met a couple in my time.

Anyways I didn't make this rivalry Bain, I'm just going with the flow. For someone who has always been as militant as you are I'm surprised you'd take issue with such a nationalistic rivalry, or maybe not... You take issue with pretty much anything I say even if I'm agreeing with you. rolleyes.gif
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