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Marney1
This recent case (Times) in the UK has re-ignited the arguement of how much force is reasonable force when it comes to protecting yourself and your property.
I'm aware that in some parts of the world you are well within your rights to kill an intruder but here in the UK the definition of self defence is unclear and confusing to the point people are afraid that if they attack an attacker they will be arrested and possibly jailed for injuring them.

TreeFitty
Killing is one thing. Injuring (sometimes severely) is another. Although if confronted with the "kill or be killed" situation, do what you gotta do to protect yourself. I don't expect a person in a situation to really think out how much pain to inflict on a criminal. They'll just beat the shit out of them until they feel safe.
Skinny 
Any force is reasonable force if you're defending yourself, IMO.
demon
QUOTE (Marney1 @ Jan 21 2010, 05:57 AM) *
This recent case (Times) in the UK has re-ignited the arguement of how much force is reasonable force when it comes to protecting yourself and your property.
I'm aware that in some parts of the world you are well within your rights to kill an intruder but here in the UK the definition of self defence is unclear and confusing to the point people are afraid that if they attack an attacker they will be arrested and possibly jailed for injuring them.

It is - if possible - worse here in Norway. If you hit a burglar (without injuring him), YOU get in trouble for offending the burglar unless you hit him to save your own health. So if you're gonna use force to protect your property you'll have to wait for him to attack you first.

This is wrong. If someone beat the shit out of a thief or beat a burglar to death, he should be rewarded and treated like the hero he is.

And the police often don't have time to come and look when a burglary is reported. And if they do have time to come and investigate, they'll not do much before the case is dropped and put away.

It's easier to be a criminal in Norway than it is in San Andreas.

Fuck this. angry.gif
Spoiler
the law is more or less the same here. afterall, we are british colony once.

i would say it's a human birthright to protect himself by any mean nesscessary. that survival instinct is what make us and this shitty laws should acknoweldge that.
new major on the block
lol well thats why im proud to live in Texas where everyone is packing. Plus we execute criminals like its going out of style. But if I remember this past year there was a guy who shot and killed a burglar who was breaking into his neighbors house here in Houston. No charges were brought up against him at all.
TreeFitty
^but you guys are allowed to kill if it's a house entry.
Spoiler
QUOTE (new major on the block @ Jan , 06:14 AM) *
lol well thats why im proud to live in Texas where everyone is packing. Plus we execute criminals like its going out of style. But if I remember this past year there was a guy who shot and killed a burglar who was breaking into his neighbors house here in Houston. No charges were brought up against him at all.

Can i move there?
new major on the block
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Jan 21 2010, 12:17 AM) *
^but you guys are allowed to kill if it's a house entry.

But he shot him outside on his neighbors property
He heard noises outside, he went out there with his shotgun and saw 2 men coming out of the window of his neighbors house. He warned them that he was armed but they ignored him. He said that one of the men made a move toward him so he fired.
demon
QUOTE (SPOILER @ Jan 21 2010, 06:56 AM) *
the law is more or less the same here. afterall, we are british colony once.

i would say it's a human birthright to protect himself by any mean nesscessary. that survival instinct is what make us and this shitty laws should acknoweldge that.

Where is "here"? The brits had colonies everywhere.

We're not allowed much, but we can of course kill if it is to save life. That is "emergency right".


QUOTE (new major on the block @ Jan 21 2010, 07:14 AM) *
lol well thats why im proud to live in Texas where everyone is packing. Plus we execute criminals like its going out of style. But if I remember this past year there was a guy who shot and killed a burglar who was breaking into his neighbors house here in Houston. No charges were brought up against him at all.

Houston I love you. biggrin.gif
That was one very good neighbor!!


QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Jan 21 2010, 07:17 AM) *
^but you guys are allowed to kill if it's a house entry.

Is it so different on the East coast?
PabloHoneyOle
In Florida, you can kill someone for breaking into your house, you just have to make it look like self-protection. Shoot first, ask questions later.
Spoiler
QUOTE (demon @ Jan 21 2010, 11:42 AM) *
QUOTE (SPOILER @ Jan 21 2010, 06:56 AM) *
the law is more or less the same here. afterall, we are british colony once.

i would say it's a human birthright to protect himself by any mean nesscessary. that survival instinct is what make us and this shitty laws should acknoweldge that.

Where is "here"? The brits had colonies everywhere.


here in the east. rolleyes.gif

And if it's found guilty of assault instead of self defense, this is part of the corporal punishment. the only country still doing it.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

if some of you are old enough or interested in the world in 1994, u will remember this dude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay
Heartless
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Jan 21 2010, 01:17 AM) *
^but you guys are allowed to kill if it's a house entry.


NY takes the cake for retarded, hands down. If the guy breaks into your house, and is clearly threatening your life (good luck proving that, btw) you are allowed one shot, and he must die. If he lives, you pay all the medical bills. And, if you take another shot, well, now you're going to be charged for attempted murder. And if he leaves, and you shoot him in the back as he goes? Oh fuck all, lol, you may as well move to Rikers and save the state some time.
The Awesome One
I defended my garage. Punishment-prison.
Skinny 
QUOTE (Heartless @ Jan 22 2010, 02:11 AM) *
NY takes the cake for retarded, hands down. If the guy breaks into your house, and is clearly threatening your life (good luck proving that, btw) you are allowed one shot ... And, if you take another shot, well, now you're going to be charged for attempted murder.

This might take the cake for most arbitrary law ever.

QUOTE
If he lives, you pay all the medical bills.

You may as well just replace the stuff he took and pray he (or she!!!!) doesn't hurt you -,-
demon
QUOTE (Stoic Person Eater @ Jan 21 2010, 03:24 PM) *
In Florida, you can kill someone for breaking into your house, you just have to make it look like self-protection. Shoot first, ask questions later.

In some states you don't even have to make it look like self-protection? You are allowed to take him out once he is inside your house?


QUOTE (SPOILER @ Jan 21 2010, 03:25 PM) *
QUOTE (demon @ Jan 21 2010, 11:42 AM) *
QUOTE (SPOILER @ Jan 21 2010, 06:56 AM) *
the law is more or less the same here. afterall, we are british colony once.

i would say it's a human birthright to protect himself by any mean nesscessary. that survival instinct is what make us and this shitty laws should acknoweldge that.

Where is "here"? The brits had colonies everywhere.


here in the east. rolleyes.gif

And if it's found guilty of assault instead of self defense, this is part of the corporal punishment. the only country still doing it.

Click to view attachment
Click to view attachment

if some of you are old enough or interested in the world in 1994, u will remember this dude.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_P._Fay

So you're in Singapore? I didn't know we had Asian members. smile.gif
And I must say, caning looks terrible. I guess the picture is an extreme case, but still...


QUOTE (Heartless @ Jan 21 2010, 04:11 PM) *
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Jan 21 2010, 01:17 AM) *
^but you guys are allowed to kill if it's a house entry.


NY takes the cake for retarded, hands down. If the guy breaks into your house, and is clearly threatening your life (good luck proving that, btw) you are allowed one shot, and he must die. If he lives, you pay all the medical bills. And, if you take another shot, well, now you're going to be charged for attempted murder. And if he leaves, and you shoot him in the back as he goes? Oh fuck all, lol, you may as well move to Rikers and save the state some time.

Hands down. blink.gif
What in the Lords name was they thinking when they made that law? If you shoot and he is just injured, you have to hold him there until he bleeds to death... Or you can give him the second bullet and then commit suicide.

Heartless
All of New Yorks laws were written for one sole reason: to appease the voters. How NY Law works is this; say you want to get elected for an office somewhere. Well, you tell the constituents that if they vote for you, you'll be tougher on crime. What this translates to is, Murder 1, 2, 3 and then a bunch of letters tossed in, a billion petty crimes laws, and enough weaselize to drown a moose in.
demon
QUOTE (Heartless @ Jan 21 2010, 07:50 PM) *
All of New Yorks laws were written for one sole reason: to appease the voters. How NY Law works is this; say you want to get elected for an office somewhere. Well, you tell the constituents that if they vote for you, you'll be tougher on crime. What this translates to is, Murder 1, 2, 3 and then a bunch of letters tossed in, a billion petty crimes laws, and enough weaselize to drown a moose in.

But who is doing the thinking when politicians does not?

I believe I know the answer. Nobody. rolleyes.gif
TreeFitty
The laws all come down to how the area (be it a town, a state, or a country) grew/changed over the decades. NYC has always been crazy and a place like Texas still holds it's cowboy-like values.
demon
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Jan 21 2010, 08:47 PM) *
The laws all come down to how the area (be it a town, a state, or a country) grew/changed over the decades. NYC has always been crazy and a place like Texas still holds it's cowboy-like values.

I'm glad you used the term 'crazy' about NYC and not about cowboy-Texas. wink.gif
TreeFitty
You know someone from Texas or something?
demon
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Jan 21 2010, 09:18 PM) *
You know someone from Texas or something?

No. smile.gif
I like Texas and there is a conservative redneck somewhere inside me. ph34r.gif

new major on the block
If you have a concealed handgun liscense you can carry a gun into the capital building in Austin. The laws were written here to still keep those individual freedoms that were granted to you and your personal property. But that freedom comes with a price, cause youre not the only one carrying a gun here. It kinda acts as a deterrent for criminals here because you never know if that little old lady you might be targeting for a purse snatching has a .38 under her blouse to blow you away with.

Having said that, there is always crime anywhere you go. You just need to figure out where you best feel safe and how you wish to protect yourself, family and property. I like where i live and i enjoy my 6 rifles, 3 shotguns, and 3 handguns knowing that if i hear a noise of glass breaking that i can have the barrel on the target within a few seconds biggrin.gif
TreeFitty
Do you guys still need a license to have a gun? (not concealed) Like if you just have a rifle in your house.
new major on the block
Not at all. If youre 18 and over you can go buy a rifle or shotgun. And if youre 21 or older you can buy a handgun just as long as you haven't been convicted of a felony
TreeFitty
Sounds like Pennsylvania. Walk into Walmart with your driver's license and pick out your new toy.

Now NJ, on the other hand, they don't like guns as much. Permits, waiting periods, background checks, etc.
new major on the block
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Jan 21 2010, 07:00 PM) *
Sounds like Pennsylvania. Walk into Walmart with your driver's license and pick out your new toy.

Now NJ, on the other hand, they don't like guns as much. Waiting periods, background checks, etc.


lol yeah same here, although i think the wallyworlds in the cities don't sell guns, if they do, they don't display them.
TreeFitty
I think they get away with most of it as "hunting equipment". Obviously you can't get anything too deadly.
new major on the block
The cool thing is knowing mechanical engineers who manufacture their own parts for certain weapons. Especially when it comes to converting some to automatics. The Aggie Education for you lol
demon
QUOTE (new major on the block @ Jan 22 2010, 01:38 AM) *
If you have a concealed handgun liscense you can carry a gun into the capital building in Austin. The laws were written here to still keep those individual freedoms that were granted to you and your personal property. But that freedom comes with a price, cause youre not the only one carrying a gun here. It kinda acts as a deterrent for criminals here because you never know if that little old lady you might be targeting for a purse snatching has a .38 under her blouse to blow you away with.

Having said that, there is always crime anywhere you go. You just need to figure out where you best feel safe and how you wish to protect yourself, family and property. I like where i live and i enjoy my 6 rifles, 3 shotguns, and 3 handguns knowing that if i hear a noise of glass breaking that i can have the barrel on the target within a few seconds biggrin.gif

If you snatch that purse, can that lady legally blow out your brains (if she has a license)?

And as for storing guns and ammo at home, do you have to lock away anything? Can you hang a loaded gun on the wall?

Laws are strict here, both guns and ammo must be locked away in special safes.
new major on the block
QUOTE (demon @ Jan 21 2010, 07:11 PM) *
QUOTE (new major on the block @ Jan 22 2010, 01:38 AM) *
If you have a concealed handgun liscense you can carry a gun into the capital building in Austin. The laws were written here to still keep those individual freedoms that were granted to you and your personal property. But that freedom comes with a price, cause youre not the only one carrying a gun here. It kinda acts as a deterrent for criminals here because you never know if that little old lady you might be targeting for a purse snatching has a .38 under her blouse to blow you away with.

Having said that, there is always crime anywhere you go. You just need to figure out where you best feel safe and how you wish to protect yourself, family and property. I like where i live and i enjoy my 6 rifles, 3 shotguns, and 3 handguns knowing that if i hear a noise of glass breaking that i can have the barrel on the target within a few seconds biggrin.gif

If you snatch that purse, can that lady legally blow out your brains (if she has a license)?

And as for storing guns and ammo at home, do you have to lock away anything? Can you hang a loaded gun on the wall?

Laws are strict here, both guns and ammo must be locked away in special safes.


lol no you don't need a license to kill, no pun intended, well yes pun intended. She can legally blow you away if she felt her life threatened, but she might be charged with concealing a handgun without a license, depends on the police who arrived on the scene, the D.A. and the community outcry, whether they back her in her right, or not. They might over look it but thats a matter you take up with a lawyer, im not one yet.

As for the guns and ammo in my home, no i do not have a lock or have them stored away, but then again i have no children here to worry about playing with them. I do know of a few people who repowder their own cartridges and they have it like in their living room. But they are hardcore gun enthusiasts. I could hang a loaded gun on my wall if i felt like it but i wouldn't exactly feel safe with it hanging there. Never know when a crack of thunder could raddle the wall and it falls and goes off.
TreeFitty
As strict as NJ is, I don't think there's any laws about home storage. Obviously they tell you to lock it up safe away from children and such but I can't seem to find an actual law about it.
demon
QUOTE (new major on the block @ Jan 22 2010, 02:28 AM) *
QUOTE (demon @ Jan 21 2010, 07:11 PM) *
QUOTE (new major on the block @ Jan 22 2010, 01:38 AM) *
It kinda acts as a deterrent for criminals here because you never know if that little old lady you might be targeting for a purse snatching has a .38 under her blouse to blow you away with.

If you snatch that purse, can that lady legally blow out your brains (if she has a license)?

lol no you don't need a license to kill, no pun intended, well yes pun intended. She can legally blow you away if she felt her life threatened, but she might be charged with concealing a handgun without a license, depends on the police who arrived on the scene, the D.A. and the community outcry, whether they back her in her right, or not. They might over look it but thats a matter you take up with a lawyer, im not one yet.

Let's say it someone tries to snatch that handbag. The woman shoots the thief and declares "I shot him to get back my handbag", or maybe "to defend my property".

Given she did not defend her life, is she on thin ice?
TreeFitty
If that's what she says then probably so.
new major on the block
QUOTE (demon @ Jan 21 2010, 09:27 PM) *
QUOTE (new major on the block @ Jan 22 2010, 02:28 AM) *
QUOTE (demon @ Jan 21 2010, 07:11 PM) *
QUOTE (new major on the block @ Jan 22 2010, 01:38 AM) *
It kinda acts as a deterrent for criminals here because you never know if that little old lady you might be targeting for a purse snatching has a .38 under her blouse to blow you away with.

If you snatch that purse, can that lady legally blow out your brains (if she has a license)?

lol no you don't need a license to kill, no pun intended, well yes pun intended. She can legally blow you away if she felt her life threatened, but she might be charged with concealing a handgun without a license, depends on the police who arrived on the scene, the D.A. and the community outcry, whether they back her in her right, or not. They might over look it but thats a matter you take up with a lawyer, im not one yet.

Let's say it someone tries to snatch that handbag. The woman shoots the thief and declares "I shot him to get back my handbag", or maybe "to defend my property".

Given she did not defend her life, is she on thin ice?

Well probably not, cause the force she used is excessive for the justification, but thats if she had the gun concealed and no liscense. If she did have the license and did it then i would say she had the right to carry and defend her property. But if she said that she was in fear of her life even though the guy wasnt armed then she would be right. But in the same senerio if she hit him with her cane and incapacitated him she would be within her right to fight back. Again this is all hypothetical and it would ultimately come down to the cops and prosecutor. Would they want to haggle an old woman and bring charges on her when she helped get a criminal off the streets?
demon
See, that's why I love Texas and other states. biggrin.gif

TreeFitty
lol I give it a month before Demon announces he's moving to the US.

"why you moving there?"
"so I can shoot people without getting in trouble!"
demon
Haha!
Massacre
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Jan 22 2010, 12:20 AM) *
lol I give it a month before Demon announces he's moving to the US.

"why you moving there?"
"so I can shoot people without getting in trouble!"

That's as good a reason as any.
new major on the block
Ditto.
America: where you can meet interesting people and then shoot them
TreeFitty
QUOTE (new major on the block @ Jan 22 2010, 01:26 PM) *
Ditto.
America: where you can meet interesting people and then shoot them as long as you claim your life was in danger


fixed.
new major on the block
lol but i like the original better
Marney1
If someone were to break into Obama's house and be met with a bullet to the head I'm sure there would be no case to answer.
Massacre
QUOTE (new major on the block @ Jan 22 2010, 01:32 PM) *
lol but i like the original better

Agreed. Murder doesn't need an excuse, it just needs to be fun.

Edit: Wow, I cannot think of a more appropriate thousandth post for me.
TreeFitty
QUOTE (Massacre @ Jan 22 2010, 01:48 PM) *
QUOTE (new major on the block @ Jan 22 2010, 01:32 PM) *
lol but i like the original better

Agreed. Murder doesn't need an excuse, it just needs to be fun.

Edit: Wow, I cannot think of a more appropriate thousandth post for me.


Agreed and congrats.
Heartless
QUOTE (Marney1 @ Jan 22 2010, 01:39 PM) *
If someone were to break into Obama's house and be met with a bullet to the head I'm sure there would be no case to answer.


Correct. There is a legal bubble around the President that ignores most laws and the constitution.
demon
QUOTE (new major on the block @ Jan 22 2010, 07:26 PM) *
Ditto.
America: where you can meet interesting people and then shoot them

And also:
America: where public cussing and nudity is worse than blood and gore.


QUOTE (Massacre @ Jan 22 2010, 07:48 PM) *
QUOTE (new major on the block @ Jan 22 2010, 01:32 PM) *
lol but i like the original better

Agreed. Murder doesn't need an excuse, it just needs to be fun.

Massacre, I can't think of a more fitting name for you.
TreeFitty
It's a name he lives up to.

As for the public cussing, not really that bad unless you're shouting. I think even nudity would be a lesser problem than blood/gore.
demon
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Jan 23 2010, 06:29 AM) *
It's a name he lives up to.

As for the public cussing, not really that bad unless you're shouting. I think even nudity would be a lesser problem than blood/gore.

Well, we remember the outcry when Beyonce showed her nipple for a moment on the Super Bowl?
TreeFitty
Beyonce was the Oscars (so I am reading). Janet Jackson was the Super Bowl.
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