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Marney1
Good or bad?

TreeFitty
Good for those that need it. bad for everyone else who has their own and will end up paying for it.
Marney1
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Nov 8 2009, 06:11 PM) *
Good for those that need it. bad for everyone else who has their own and will end up paying for it.

You sure? I mean have you read the bill right through?

I'm sure no congressmen had the chance to before voting on it.

Health Care Bill PDF
OptimumPx
QUOTE (marney1 @ Nov 8 2009, 01:30 PM) *
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Nov 8 2009, 06:11 PM) *
Good for those that need it. bad for everyone else who has their own and will end up paying for it.

You sure? I mean have you read the bill right through?

I'm sure no congressmen had the chance to before voting on it.

Health Care Bill PDF

1017 pages? Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick!

Well we needed some kind of reform, after all it was getting ridiculous and the money issue was getting several thousand dollars on the wrong side of uncomfortable.

Did you hear about the family who's son was murdered? The guy was in college but was beaten to death by his room mate. 911 was called and he was rushed to the Emergency Room! But after looking at him for 5 minutes they knew he was lost and he died.

Then the hospital billed his parents $29,186.50 for that 5 minutes. That number isn't an error, that's how much 5 minutes of their time is worth in the Emergency Room of the UC Davis Medical Center in Sacramento, California.

Five goddamn minutes. That's $5,837.30 a minute.

No wonder medical care is one of the leading causes of bankruptcy...
Marney1
QUOTE (OptimumPx @ Nov 8 2009, 07:01 PM) *
QUOTE (marney1 @ Nov 8 2009, 01:30 PM) *
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Nov 8 2009, 06:11 PM) *
Good for those that need it. bad for everyone else who has their own and will end up paying for it.

You sure? I mean have you read the bill right through?

I'm sure no congressmen had the chance to before voting on it.

Health Care Bill PDF

1017 pages? Jesus H. Christ on a pogo stick!

Well we needed some kind of reform, after all it was getting ridiculous and the money issue was getting several thousand dollars on the wrong side of uncomfortable.

Did you hear about the family who's son was murdered? The guy was in college but was beaten to death by his room mate. 911 was called and he was rushed to the Emergency Room! But after looking at him for 5 minutes they knew he was lost and he died.

Then the hospital billed his parents $29,186.50 for that 5 minutes. That number isn't an error, that's how much 5 minutes of their time is worth in the Emergency Room of the UC Davis Medical Center in Sacramento, California.

Five goddamn minutes. That's $5,837.30 a minute.

No wonder medical care is one of the leading causes of bankruptcy...

Three lads died (one my friend) after their car hit a lampost - the council sent my mates mum a bill for the lampost.
The Awesome One
Why would you do something like this when half the world is still in Recession?
Marney1
QUOTE (Captain.Charisma @ Nov 8 2009, 09:17 PM) *
Why would you do something like this when half the world is still in Recession?

To create more job losses and steal peoples rights.
TreeFitty
QUOTE (marney1 @ Nov 8 2009, 05:00 PM) *
QUOTE (Captain.Charisma @ Nov 8 2009, 09:17 PM) *
Why would you do something like this when half the world is still in Recession?

To create more job losses and steal peoples rights money.

Skinny
The obvious reform option is to have insurance cover less (only covering major illnesses and injuries), and pay for doctor vists with Employee Health Funds.
Heartless
Well I for one enjoy this new reform. I always wanted to go on unemployment anyhow.
Hardcore Ottoman
Has it passed the Senate yet?
OptimumPx
QUOTE (punxtr @ Nov 9 2009, 11:05 PM) *
Has it passed the Senate yet?

No, just the House. It goes to the Senate next.
TreeFitty
and everyone (and by everyone i mean the media) is saying it may not get through.
Heartless
America is mine, and it owes me a living. And if you ask me why, why I'll spit in your eye.
Hardcore Ottoman
QUOTE (OptimumPx @ Nov 9 2009, 11:20 PM) *
QUOTE (punxtr @ Nov 9 2009, 11:05 PM) *
Has it passed the Senate yet?

No, just the House. It goes to the Senate next.


It was sarcasm. How can the bill pass if it has only went through one house?

Pretty sure it'll fail. Hopefully.
TreeFitty
I don't see how anyone could have seen sarcasm in that. rolleyes.gif

it did pass. just one step. now to the next step for it to pass through.
Marney1
QUOTE (Q-less @ Nov 10 2009, 05:30 AM) *
America is mine, and it owes me a living. And if you ask me why, why I'll spit in your eye.

Why?
Skinny
QUOTE (Qarney1 @ Nov 12 2009, 04:47 AM) *
QUOTE (Q-less @ Nov 10 2009, 05:30 AM) *
America is mine, and it owes me a living. And if you ask me why, why I'll spit in your eye.

Why?

Sarcasm, dude.
Hardcore Ottoman
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Nov 11 2009, 01:32 AM) *
I don't see how anyone could have seen sarcasm in that. rolleyes.gif

it did pass. just one step. now to the next step for it to pass through.


You can't see it because it's better heard...

And nice fail at semantics.
TreeFitty
sorry if my word play scares you.
trathen93
judging by some of the idiotic charges made for health care in the US, they really need a service similar to the NHS we have over here in the UK. obviously they would have to make it more efficent and cleaner but its not really that hard is it?
TreeFitty
You under estimate the US Government's ability to take simpler things and make them complicated.
Skinny
QUOTE (Q-Nino @ Nov 16 2009, 10:03 AM) *
judging by some of the idiotic charges made for health care in the US, they really need a service similar to the NHS we have over here in the UK. obviously they would have to make it more efficent and cleaner but its not really that hard is it?

omg lol
Marney1
The Health Care Bill has passed.
Spoiler
1st step to socialism.
Hardcore Ottoman
Did not see this coming...
TreeFitty
I'm sure the opposition will continue. I wouldn't be surprised if it almost gets the axe.
Heartless
I'll say this:

What's possible to happen after the fallout of the passing of this reform, is that most of the big money players will begin to pull out of the United States even more then they already have. I can't imagine the wealthy remaining in a country where they now have to support the least able of society. Of course, you may say that most countries have NHS - but remember, most US cities are larger then European countries. Think about that for a moment. Even if a country taxes you harder over there, they still would need significantly less then what the US gvt will start asking for.

Further, we might see the abandonment of old job markets - a blow that would potentially come at the wrong time. Unemployment has just started to lower, but I can imagine large scale pharmaceuticals selling out to third world counties to avoid the many regulations piling up here. These means less funding for hospitals, and their eventual closure. Further, the big chain stores could close down or restrict operations here, rather then take a loss in health care costs. Think about McDonalds, with share holds in almost every country in the world. Again, even in countries with NHS, the relative payout is miniscule then what they could expect to see here.

An almost guaranteed SNAFU will come from the heavy fines levied on people who don't buy into a health care plan. Unless of course you can't pay for it. I'm not sure how that'll work, but I can see some abusing this and others taking advantage of it. If I agree to work for a business under the table and tax free, he doesn't have to pay my health care and since I can't afford a plan, i should get it free right? Or, what about people just on the buffer? Where 200+ is just too much? This could also begin to break down promotions and salary augmentations, if the math works out. If paying employee 1 level A is cheaper then paying plan B for NHS, or the reverse, then there becomes little reason to promote.

While I always had the argument that the federal government shouldn't interfere in abortion, I think they made the wrong move in this. If we say that we swear equality among all people, regardless of A, B, C and D, then pregnant whores who want a good scraping shouldn't be excluded. We have now agreed that all people deserve health care, except that we now have exceptions. This is more then a little wrong to me.

Further, we have seen several school districts closing in the last month. Stay tuned for me as we begin to spend billions of tax dollars keeping the dead alive, or as the conspiracy nuts say, keeping them dead. Wether you euthanize the old or morphine the cancerous, you're looking at millions and millions in taxation - that's ultimately removing necessary money from other services. Some towns in Colorado have already abandoned public works, streets lights and dear god yes, police stations. Once the private backers of health institutes pull out and leave the NHS on the hands of the tax payers, we'll start to see lots of cracks in the system.

Big question is, what do we do with the disabled war vets? What about the homeless? What about the unemployed? Will doctors begin to move to private practices to the ultra wealthy to better retain their standard of living.

I give it ten years. Tops.

QUOTE (Spoiler @ Mar 21 2010, 11:10 PM) *
1st step to socialism.


Is public transportation.
0bs3n3
Wait I thought the Republican victory in Kennedy's old seat meant they couldn't pass it?
Heartless
It only passed by a few votes.
TreeFitty
just because you're on a side doesn't mean you are forced to vote that way. other people might not like them too much for it but they can still vote for whatever they like.
Massacre
This passed? Whelp, better start restocking the bunker.
Iced Coke
Welcome to civilisation America. How's it feel?

You guys are evil bastards, you know that? One girl on another forum out and out said in a discussion "the poor don't deserve health care" and it seems most Americans think like this. Seriously. fuck you guys.
Marney1
Kucinich is a turncoat. He was totally against this then after a flight on Air Force One with Obama he changed his mind.
Heartless
QUOTE (Iced Coke @ Mar 22 2010, 04:13 PM) *
Welcome to civilisation America. How's it feel?

You guys are evil bastards, you know that? One girl on another forum out and out said in a discussion "the poor don't deserve health care" and it seems most Americans think like this. Seriously. fuck you guys.


This post is the reason the billions spent on NHS would be better spent on education.
Iced Coke
We spend roughly 4 a week on nhs bills, and I could walk in with a broken leg and not pay a thing to get it fixed. I think the NHS works fine, fuck off. I swear America was where we sent the shittest members of British culture, as Australia, the ex prison colony is far more civilised than you toss pots.
Heartless
England has a population of 51 million. The US has 300 Million and an enormous poor to rich divide. We'll end up paying a lot fucking more then 6 bucks. Never mind the other 50 million illegals living here. Besides, I've heard a lot of negative things about English NHS.

Link.
Massacre
QUOTE (Iced Coke @ Mar 22 2010, 04:13 PM) *
Welcome to civilisation America. How's it feel?

You guys are evil bastards, you know that? One girl on another forum out and out said in a discussion "the poor don't deserve health care" and it seems most Americans think like this. Seriously. fuck you guys.

I fail to see how evil bastard is an insult. It's the American way, you communist faggot.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
This is literally Nazism.

Literally only Nazis and people who hate freedom support this.

On a serious note, Heartless can you stop pretending to be an idiot, it'd be infuriating if you were any good at it.
Heartless
QUOTE (Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester @ Mar 22 2010, 10:55 PM) *
This is literally Nazism.

Literally only Nazis and people who hate freedom support this.

On a serious note, Heartless can you stop pretending to be an idiot, it'd be infuriating if you were any good at it.


What was the first country to have an anti-smoking campaign? That's right, Nazi Germany.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
QUOTE (Rick Astley @ Mar 23 2010, 04:31 AM) *
QUOTE (Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester @ Mar 22 2010, 10:55 PM) *
This is literally Nazism.

Literally only Nazis and people who hate freedom support this.

On a serious note, Heartless can you stop pretending to be an idiot, it'd be infuriating if you were any good at it.


What was the first country to have an anti-smoking campaign? That's right, Nazi Germany.
I don't like anti-smoking campaigns. Can't really figure out what this has to do with health bills though.
Heartless
Nazi Germany was the first country to make national health and health related issues a part of it's platform. Many of the ideas of Socialism and Socialist ideas were born during that time.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
QUOTE (Rick Astley @ Mar 24 2010, 01:46 AM) *
Nazi Germany was the first country to make national health and health related issues a part of it's platform. Many of the ideas of Socialism and Socialist ideas were born during that time.
Yep, and they were the first country to introduce high speed personal vehicle transport infrastructure. They also led the world in sportswear production -- Adi (Adolf) Dassler was a fervent National Socialist!!

But it's not the socialist stuff people have a fair kneejerk response to in national socialism. It's the nationalist stuff: the protection of German interests from what they perceived to be threats (most famously "world Jewry"). Not to say their brand of socialism was perfect, or even beneficial, but the thrust of this is that calling national healthcare "nazi" is missing the bloody point a bit.
Heartless
QUOTE (Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester @ Mar 24 2010, 12:15 AM) *
QUOTE (Rick Astley @ Mar 24 2010, 01:46 AM) *
Nazi Germany was the first country to make national health and health related issues a part of it's platform. Many of the ideas of Socialism and Socialist ideas were born during that time.
Yep, and they were the first country to introduce high speed personal vehicle transport infrastructure. They also led the world in sportswear production -- Adi (Adolf) Dassler was a fervent National Socialist!!

But it's not the socialist stuff people have a fair kneejerk response to in national socialism. It's the nationalist stuff: the protection of German interests from what they perceived to be threats (most famously "world Jewry"). Not to say their brand of socialism was perfect, or even beneficial, but the thrust of this is that calling national healthcare "nazi" is missing the bloody point a bit.


Addidas made anti-tank weapons during the war. Hugo Boss made the SS Uniforms. And Bayer? Bayer made the worlds first Aspirin, and heroin. Anyways, I have to go get my car repaired. I'll harangue later.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
QUOTE (Rick Astley @ Mar 24 2010, 06:01 PM) *
QUOTE (Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester @ Mar 24 2010, 12:15 AM) *
QUOTE (Rick Astley @ Mar 24 2010, 01:46 AM) *
Nazi Germany was the first country to make national health and health related issues a part of it's platform. Many of the ideas of Socialism and Socialist ideas were born during that time.
Yep, and they were the first country to introduce high speed personal vehicle transport infrastructure. They also led the world in sportswear production -- Adi (Adolf) Dassler was a fervent National Socialist!!

But it's not the socialist stuff people have a fair kneejerk response to in national socialism. It's the nationalist stuff: the protection of German interests from what they perceived to be threats (most famously "world Jewry"). Not to say their brand of socialism was perfect, or even beneficial, but the thrust of this is that calling national healthcare "nazi" is missing the bloody point a bit.


Addidas made anti-tank weapons during the war. Hugo Boss made the SS Uniforms. And Bayer? Bayer made the worlds first Aspirin, and heroin. Anyways, I have to go get my car repaired. I'll harangue later.
Yeah. And honestly, I see nothing wrong with their uniforms. It's the holocaust I have a problem with.

Moustaches and autobahns do not make fascism. Nationalism and belligerence do. Correlation is not causation. Stop it.
Heartless
QUOTE (Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester @ Mar 28 2010, 10:51 PM) *
QUOTE (Rick Astley @ Mar 24 2010, 06:01 PM) *
QUOTE (Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester @ Mar 24 2010, 12:15 AM) *
QUOTE (Rick Astley @ Mar 24 2010, 01:46 AM) *
Nazi Germany was the first country to make national health and health related issues a part of it's platform. Many of the ideas of Socialism and Socialist ideas were born during that time.
Yep, and they were the first country to introduce high speed personal vehicle transport infrastructure. They also led the world in sportswear production -- Adi (Adolf) Dassler was a fervent National Socialist!!

But it's not the socialist stuff people have a fair kneejerk response to in national socialism. It's the nationalist stuff: the protection of German interests from what they perceived to be threats (most famously "world Jewry"). Not to say their brand of socialism was perfect, or even beneficial, but the thrust of this is that calling national healthcare "nazi" is missing the bloody point a bit.


Addidas made anti-tank weapons during the war. Hugo Boss made the SS Uniforms. And Bayer? Bayer made the worlds first Aspirin, and heroin. Anyways, I have to go get my car repaired. I'll harangue later.
Yeah. And honestly, I see nothing wrong with their uniforms. It's the holocaust I have a problem with.

Moustaches and autobahns do not make fascism. Nationalism and belligerence do. Correlation is not causation. Stop it.


So the Austrian Jews didn't stab Germania in the back during WW1?
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
Germany lost because they overstretched, but I like this game, it's almost a mental agility test-come-word association.
Spoiler
QUOTE (Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester @ Mar 30 2010, 03:23 AM) *
Germany lost because they overstretched, but I like this game, it's almost a mental agility test-come-word association.

Germany lost because they tried to take Russia. So was Napoleon. they should have take Britain instead and you would be learning German and I Japanese.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
A very simple version. Their peace was uneasy to the East, though, the war would have ended as it did regardless of Germany's tactical decisions. They were opposed to some extent by the world's two greatest powers, it's often overstated how close the war was.
Heartless
QUOTE (Spoiler @ Mar 30 2010, 12:33 PM) *
QUOTE (Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester @ Mar 30 2010, 03:23 AM) *
Germany lost because they overstretched, but I like this game, it's almost a mental agility test-come-word association.

Germany lost because they tried to take Russia. So was Napoleon. they should have take Britain instead and you would be learning German and I Japanese.


Number one thing people don't know about WW2: Great Britain wasn't worth shit. Their Empire fumbled and they had nothing left to fight with. The only reason they didn't get run over by Krauts is because Hitler was crazy, Germany was beset on all sides by the most powerful nations in the world, and most important, they were losing the resource wars. Russia and the US had a near limitless supply of oil at the time; the European theater was too bombed out to take advantage of it's stores. This is the reason that the ending act of WW2 was fought in the Middle East, the Mediterran, and North Africa. By the end of it, even when Hitler was still groping for what tattered remains were left of his country, the US was fighting Russia, if only indirectly. We guessed that we needed to control the Middle East, or end up like Germany someday. And thank god they did! If we didn't create Iran, prop up the Saudi family, install the Zionist state, and fund rebellions in Iraq, we would see a vastly different world stage today. What went on in Europe was all popcorn - it tasted good but wasn't steak. The US had to be sure that their interests would be secure for the next hundred years, and not in the maw of the red bear.
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