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Marney1


TreeFitty
link?


edit: okay, how do you go from posting a huge ass article to some videos?
Marney1
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Oct 16 2009, 08:38 PM) *
link?


edit: okay, how do you go from posting a huge ass article to some videos?

I couldn't get the link to work properly so I pasted it and it was a long read so I changed it to videos instead.

Here it is again if you want to read it click
TreeFitty
that whole website has issues. can't find anything by searching.

edit: ok now to ^that^ link...
Marney1
So, what I want to know is this - If he was born in Kenya is he eligible by US law to be the president?
Tranque
Eh, I mean, I heard McCain was born in Panama tongue.gif (Not that I believe it, or it makes this any acceptable)

So I kind of need to take everything I hear, liberal or conservative with a grain of salt. The first testimony by his grandmother is given by a shoddy recording and second it just doesn't seem like any of their identities can be fully verified. Likewise, a blogger claiming he made a fraudulent birth certificate for Obama is interesting but also a little wobbly. Of course if this was all true I'd really expect the GOP to have caught on, and still been rabidly attacking this breach of eligibility. And really, if we think logically, they would not let something like this just "go" as a loss for them because if anything this would be one really solid arguement they could have to getting him impeached or whatever. But the lack of GOP attention to the matter (of course they may have reported it but they haven't been "on it" for awhile) and a lack of statements from legal officials kind of.. fuzzies it up for me.

QUOTE
The Rocky Mountain News has reported (below) that Barack Obama "Holds both American and Kenyan (since 1963) citizenship." Is this true?
The Rocky Mountain News
August 6, 2008

Entered Harvard Law School in 1988, was elected the first African–American editor of the Harvard Law Review. He graduated magna cum laude in 1991.

Won two Grammys for Best Spoken Word Albums for an autobiography in 1995 “Dreams From My Father: A Story of Race and Inheritance” and his second book, “The Audacity of Hope: Thoughts on Reclaiming the American Dream,” published in October 2006.

Mother Ann Dunham died of ovarian cancer in 1995. Father Barack Obama Sr. was killed in a car wreck in 1982.

Spent four years in his stepfather’s native country of Indonesia.

Is the fifth African-American senator in U.S. history

Is the first presidential candidate to come from Hawaii.

Favorite movies: “The Godfather” (Parts I and II) and “Lawrence of Arabia.”

In his early years he was known as Barry.

According to his memoirs, he admitted using alcohol, marijuana and cocaine in his youth.

His first name comes from the word that means “blessed by God” in Arabic.

At his wife’s suggestion, he quit smoking before his campaign to win the Democratic nomination began.

Holds both American and Kenyan (since 1963) citizenship.

Named one of Time magazine’s “100 most influential people in the world” list in 2005 and 2007.

Chosen as one of “10 people would change the world” by New Statesman magazine (2005).

Source: biography.com , Internet Movie Database, Atlanta Journal Constitution
A:

No. He held both U.S. and Kenyan citizenship as a child, but lost his Kenyan citizenship automatically on his 23rd birthday.

The Rocky Mountain News did in fact run an online article asserting that Barack Obama holds both American and Kenyan citizenship. The article was incorrect, and the paper removed the item from the article and ran a correction. The paper's editor, John Temple, formally apologized for the error in an Aug. 15, 2007, column. Neither the correction nor the apology has prevented the column from circulating across the Internet as part of the latest set of baseless rumors that Obama is ineligible to run for president.

There was a grain of truth to what the Rocky Mountain News reported, though understanding why requires a brief history lesson.

When Barack Obama Jr. was born on Aug. 4,1961, in Honolulu, Kenya was a British colony, still part of the United Kingdom's dwindling empire. As a Kenyan native, Barack Obama Sr. was a British subject whose citizenship status was governed by The British Nationality Act of 1948. That same act governed the status of Obama Sr.'s children:

British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.

In other words, at the time of his birth, Barack Obama Jr. was both a U.S. citizen (by virtue of being born in Hawaii) and a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies (or the UKC) by virtue of being born to a father who was a citizen of the UKC.

Obama's British citizenship was short-lived. On Dec. 12, 1963, Kenya formally gained its independence from the United Kingdom. Chapter VI, Section 87 of the Kenyan Constitution specifies that:

1. Every person who, having been born in Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963...

2. Every person who, having been born outside Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall, if his father becomes, or would but for his death have become, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subsection (1), become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963.

As a citizen of the UKC who was born in Kenya, Obama's father automatically received Kenyan citizenship via subsection (1). So given that Obama qualified for citizen of the UKC status at birth and given that Obama's father became a Kenyan citizen via subsection (1), it follows that Obama did in fact have Kenyan citizenship after 1963. So The Rocky Mountain News was at least partially correct.

But the paper failed to note that the Kenyan Constitution prohibits dual citizenship for adults. Kenya recognizes dual citizenship for children, but Kenya's Constitution specifies that at age 23, Kenyan citizens who possesses citizenship in more than one country automatically lose their Kenyan citizenship unless they formally renounce any non-Kenyan citizenship and swear an oath of allegiance to Kenya.

Since Sen. Obama has neither renounced his U.S. citizenship nor sworn an oath of allegiance to Kenya, his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1984.

Corrected (Sep. 3, 2009): Our original article incorrectly stated that then-Sen. Obama lost his Kenyan citizenship on Aug. 4, 1982. The correct date is Aug. 4, 1984. The Kenyan Constitution required Obama to choose whether to keep either his U.S. or Kenyan citizenship upon his 21st birthday, which was in 1982. But we initially missed that the Constitution provided him a two-year window for making that choice. So Obama did not lose his Kenyan citizenship until his 23rd birthday in 1984. We have updated the item to reflect this.


Interesting.

Cited: http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/does...itizenship.html

Quick answer:

He was born in Honolulu hawaii to a kenyan father. During that time Kenya was a British Colony and automatically if your son was born of a Kenyan he was a british "kenyan" citizen. He lost his Kenyan citizenship when he was 23 because the law states you cannot have a dual citizenship as an adult as a kenyan citizen, so voila, Hawaiian.
Marney1
QUOTE (Tranque @ Oct 16 2009, 08:59 PM) *
Eh, I mean, I heard McCain was born in Panama tongue.gif (Not that I believe it, or it makes this any acceptable)

So I kind of need to take everything I hear, liberal or conservative with a grain of salt. The first testimony by his grandmother is given by a shoddy recording and second it just doesn't seem like any of their identities can be fully verified. Likewise, a blogger claiming he made a fraudulent birth certificate for Obama is interesting but also a little wobbly. Of course if this was all true I'd really expect the GOP to have caught on, and still been rabidly attacking this breach of eligibility. And really, if we think logically, they would not let something like this just "go" as a loss for them because if anything this would be one really solid arguement they could have to getting him impeached or whatever. But the lack of GOP attention to the matter (of course they may have reported it but they haven't been "on it" for awhile) and a lack of statements from legal officials kind of.. fuzzies it up for me.

Well I remember the media going wild over this for a day then they all of a sudden shut up about it, is there proof he was born Hawaii?
Tranque
I would say the fact that main branch of propaganda for the GOP isn't continually attacking him on this, shows that if they did they would be called out on blatant lies (again tongue.gif) and subsequentially would rather not take a risk like that. Evidence on the internet can be fabricated with a few clicks so I wouldn't trust my own evidence. But Fact-check.org has a history of thoroughly checking the facts of both Liberal and Conservative speeches, statements, rumours, and news items, and based on their record (During the election they dispelled a lot of hot air in both candidates speeches and claims) I trust them sufficiently.
TreeFitty
now that i've watched the videos, i agree with tranque (pre-edit).

video 1 starts off with just a recording of a phone call. we have no way to prove the authenticity. the second part admits there are many many dialects and they play with the meaning of the words until they make it sound how they want.

video 2 is a shit ton of talking and paragraghs. and a blogger coming out that "he did it" isn't a solid argument. also as tranque pointed out, no government agency looked into it or came out stating it is true.



and why the hell is a brit bringing this up?
Tranque
To mock us Yanks and spread feces on our doorhandles.
TreeFitty
QUOTE (marney1 @ Oct 16 2009, 03:40 PM) *
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Oct 16 2009, 08:38 PM) *
link?


edit: okay, how do you go from posting a huge ass article to some videos?

I couldn't get the link to work properly so I pasted it and it was a long read so I changed it to videos instead.

Here it is again if you want to read it click


looked through the comments and found this: (this is after he first explained it, so dumbed down for the other commentors)

QUOTE
#10. To: IDontThinkSo, Robin (#8)

QUOTE
Allow me to be the first one here to say I don't understand what it is you're showing us.


The purported article of the East Africa Standard Online, appearing to document that there was an AP report on June 27, 2004 saying Obama was born in Kenya, is a fake. The source code shows that the sidebar links on that page, supposedly archived on 6/27/2004, go to pages then months in the future.

I tried posting from the source code but it screwed up the thread so I posted jpegs.

I found the actual main page from 6/27/2004. That exhibits a link to an article about Bill Clinton in the Intelligence section. The Intelligence section main page shows a link to the Clinton article under America These Days, but there is no mention of Obama. While the links from the fake page on Obama go to many different and future dates, the links on the valid pages never go beyond the date the file was archived - 6/29/2009.

John Charlton and the Post & Email is little more that a Taitz/Lincoln propaganda effort. I believe at least most of what "John Charlton" writes is by Charles Lincoln. Lincoln sometimes signs over this:

Charles Edward Lincoln III
Peyton Yates Freiman

Peyton Yates Freiman (sometimes Freeman) is not a law firm of which Charlie is a partner. It is the name of his acolyte who has a name that sounds like a law firm. And of course, you can combine pieces of Charles and Peyton and get Charlton, so the site may be a cooperative effort.


nolu chan posted on 2009-10-15 22:36:13 ET Reply Trace Private Reply
Marney1
@TF - I'm bringing it up because I've been all over the world and anything that happens on the planet interests me.

It's just that with no clear straight forward proof he was born in Hawaii like we're all told he is, then where was he born? Once again all I want to know is if he was born in Kenya does US law say he's not a legal president?
That's all I want to know at this moment in time.
Tranque
I think honestly its fairly obvious that the government screenings of eligibility aren't a dud as much as many of our conservative basis would like it to be. I am sure both McCain and Obama were both thoroughly screened for eligibility and its just common knowledge that he and McCain are both Americans.

Its like asking NASA for verification that the world is in-fact round.

And yeah, its logical that Marney would be interested because our world leaders eligibility is a world issue seeing as he controls a peer of his country, but its just people need to have a little faith in the Colonies and trust that we aren't burning our constitution.
TreeFitty
Yes, under the constitution you have to be born in the USA to be eligible. which is why it was made into such a big deal.

QUOTE (US Constitution, Article II, Section 1)
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President;
Tranque
And do you honestly think that Obama, who has been in politics for many years, could simply overlook or try to fraud that using a blogger on the internet. Its just laughable to think of, and its clearly just rumours and snake oil tongue.gif
Marney1
So according to the constitution you must be a natural born citizen.

Now I want to see proof he is a natural born citizen.
TreeFitty
well apparently he has spent good money to keep his personal info personal. flaming the fire of "he's hiding something!"

shit like all of this is why i stay out of politics. it'll go back and forth forever.
Tranque
QUOTE (marney1 @ Oct 16 2009, 08:53 PM) *
So according to the constitution you must be a natural born citizen.

Now I want to see proof he is a natural born citizen.


How easily can you produce Margaret Thatchers birth records, and Lenin's smile.gif
Marney1
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Oct 16 2009, 09:59 PM) *
well apparently he has spent good money to keep his personal info personal. flaming the fire of "he's hiding something!"

shit like all of this is why i stay out of politics. it'll go back and forth forever.

But I want proof, why is it so hard for Obama to prove he is a natural born citizen? I want closure on this like many other people, he's the president of the USA and is even being called president of the world by some corners so he of all people should be able to prove where he was born.

If it turns out he's not then your constitution means shit.
Tranque
But the fact is he wouldn't have even been made a candidate if he wasn't screened prior. Its a completely ridiculous notion started by some people who would like to see him impeached.


Its like me asking george bush jr. for proof that he isn't hitler.
Marney1
QUOTE (Tranque @ Oct 16 2009, 10:11 PM) *
But the fact is he wouldn't have even been made a candidate if he wasn't screened prior. Its a completely ridiculous notion started by some people who would like to see him impeached.


Its like me asking george bush jr. for proof that he isn't hitler.

With all due respect I need proof or to be convinced, until then in my mind you're constitution is in real trouble.
TreeFitty
if they prove he isn't born in the USA (hard evidence), he'll more than likely be removed. even after, our constitution will stand as strong as the day it was written. Someone fudging documents doesn't reflect the constitution. now you are just looking for an arguement.
Marney1
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Oct 16 2009, 10:19 PM) *
if they prove he isn't born in the USA (hard evidence), he'll more than likely be removed. even after, our constitution will stand as strong as the day it was written. Someone fudging documents doesn't reflect the constitution. now you are just looking for an arguement.

So you would just accept a story without evidence?

Obama Lawsuit Regarding Birth Certificate
TreeFitty
QUOTE (marney1 @ Oct 16 2009, 05:26 PM) *
So you would just accept a story without evidence?

the hell are you on about?

QUOTE


another pre-election issue, after which Obama still was allowed to run. start tossing in the conspiracy stories of dems behind the curtain puppeteering the government. I'll stir the pot for ya. wink.gif
Marney1
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Oct 16 2009, 10:42 PM) *
QUOTE (marney1 @ Oct 16 2009, 05:26 PM) *
So you would just accept a story without evidence?

the hell are you on about?

QUOTE


another pre-election issue, after which Obama still was allowed to run. start tossing in the conspiracy stories of dems behind the curtain puppeteering the government. I'll stir the pot for ya. wink.gif

I'm not trying to stir anything I just want what should be a simple answer to a simple question. If someone asks me for proof I was born in Liverpool then I can just produce my birth certificate, it's not the hardest thing to do but for Obama it is, I just want to know why.
TreeFitty
You and thousands of others.
Marney1
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Oct 16 2009, 10:51 PM) *
You and thousands of others.

Don't you care if he's a legit president or not?
TreeFitty
not really. like i said, i'm not one for politics. plus it's not like he's the absolute power residing over the US. he has a staff to help him along and limited power overall. i'll sit back and let the country do it's thing. *sips drink* sleep.gif
Skinny 
QUOTE (Tranque @ Oct 17 2009, 07:01 AM) *
Eh, I mean, I heard McCain was born in Panama tongue.gif

Yes, he was.
OptimumPx


It's real. It was issued by the State of Hawaii for Obama to prove he was born in Hawaii. If any person who was born in Hawaii wants a birth certificate this is what they will hand them, unless they request a long form version that simply hold more data about the birth (birth weight, length, doctor, etc etc) but no information that would add to this debate...no mater what the 'birthers' would lead you to believe.

Also, about a week later his parents ran a birth announcement in the local newspaper:


This is a lot of fuss over absolutely nothing. It doesn't matter how much proof that Obama provides, its never good enough for them. They've made their mind up that hes not a 'natural born citizen' and that's that as far as they are concerned.

Face facts, Obama was born in Honolulu on August 4th, 1961 to an American mother. This automatically granted him US Citizenship at birth, and also the right to run for President of the United States.
TreeFitty
QUOTE (OptimumPx @ Oct 16 2009, 11:41 PM) *
This is a lot of fuss over absolutely nothing. It doesn't matter how much proof that Obama provides, its never good enough for them. They've made their mind up that hes not a 'natural born citizen' and that's that as far as they are concerned.


exactly. this type of shitfest happens with everything, elections aside. people want their way no matter what it takes. conspiracy theories follow the same trends as this election.
LoonaTyk1
if it wasn't legal he wouldnt be pres. case closed. move on.
OptimumPx
QUOTE (LoonaTyk1 @ Oct 17 2009, 12:37 AM) *
if it wasn't legal he wouldnt be pres. case closed. move on.

That's another point. If there had ever been any real doubt he never would have even gotten past the filing stage, he would have been shot down then. Also the McCain camp would have eaten him alive over this if they thought that he wasn't legitimate.

To file to run for President you have to make sure all your documents are in order. They aren't going to allow someone without at least a real valid US birth certificate get any further then that.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
I always wondered if this mattered in any way at all to anyone ever.
LoonaTyk1
QUOTE (Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester @ Oct 17 2009, 06:31 AM) *
I always wondered if this mattered in any way at all to anyone ever.

personally , i couldnt care less wether our president is born here or not as long as he/she at least speaks english and is currently a u.s. citizen . even then , who really cares ? he's not really running the show anyway .
TreeFitty
QUOTE (LoonaTyk1 @ Oct 17 2009, 10:07 AM) *
he's not really running the show anyway .


something people against him ignore or don't speak of. they keep you concentrating on the their side and all the bad things about him.
Tranque
Marney stopped posting >..>
TreeFitty
he was on here at least 2 or 3 different times after his last post. think he gave up.
Marney1
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Oct 17 2009, 08:18 PM) *
he was on here at least 2 or 3 different times after his last post. think he gave up.

Nah, didn't give up, like I said - all I wanted was proof he was a natural born citizen.
You Americans can discuss what you like now.
TreeFitty
rolleyes.gif

this topic is done then less you want to pull out more internet stories.
Marney1
QUOTE (TreeFitty @ Oct 17 2009, 10:35 PM) *
rolleyes.gif

this topic is done then less you want to pull out more internet stories.

It was an internet story I wanted to get to the bottom of.
Tranque
And there isn't anything wrong with trying to, asking questions and expecting sufficient answers is one of our basic human rights.
Hardcore Ottoman
I cannot see Obama as being born outside of the USA. It doesn't seem in his character to do so, and I agree that even the GOP doesn't even bother with this shit anymore for a good reason.
LoonaTyk1
cuz he's an "American Citizen" . that's my guess . just throwin it out there.
NCP
Why would it be a problem, the USA is a country of immigrants anyway.
LoonaTyk1
still need to be an american citizen . Obama wouldn't be president if he wasn't born here . so there really is no problem except with a few racist individuals and the people who hate america anyway .
OptimumPx
QUOTE (NCP @ Oct 26 2009, 06:02 AM) *
Why would it be a problem, the USA is a country of immigrants anyway.

The United States Constitution
Article II, Section 1, Clause 5:
"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."
Marney1
QUOTE (OptimumPx @ Oct 26 2009, 06:16 PM) *
QUOTE (NCP @ Oct 26 2009, 06:02 AM) *
Why would it be a problem, the USA is a country of immigrants anyway.

The United States Constitution
Article II, Section 1, Clause 5:
"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Illegal president?
OptimumPx
QUOTE (marney1 @ Oct 26 2009, 02:24 PM) *
QUOTE (OptimumPx @ Oct 26 2009, 06:16 PM) *
QUOTE (NCP @ Oct 26 2009, 06:02 AM) *
Why would it be a problem, the USA is a country of immigrants anyway.

The United States Constitution
Article II, Section 1, Clause 5:
"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Illegal president?

As I said before, he wouldn't have even gotten past the Primary stage if he wasn't a Natural Born Citizen. He would have to have all his papers in order, and he does.

He was born in the United States to a mother who was a United States Citizen, therefore he is a Natural Born Citizen of the United States.
Marney1
QUOTE (OptimumPx @ Oct 26 2009, 06:40 PM) *
QUOTE (marney1 @ Oct 26 2009, 02:24 PM) *
QUOTE (OptimumPx @ Oct 26 2009, 06:16 PM) *
QUOTE (NCP @ Oct 26 2009, 06:02 AM) *
Why would it be a problem, the USA is a country of immigrants anyway.

The United States Constitution
Article II, Section 1, Clause 5:
"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty-five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States."

Illegal president?

As I said before, he wouldn't have even gotten past the Primary stage if he wasn't a Natural Born Citizen. He would have to have all his papers in order, and he does.

He was born in the United States to a mother who was a United States Citizen, therefore he is a Natural Born Citizen of the United States.

Then his grandmother is a lying bitch...remembers him being born in Kenya...hmm.
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