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Psy
Anyone on here had any experience with the British Army? It's something I'm thinking about doing, and I know quite a lot of the members on here are in the US military, so I was wondering if there were many people who've been in, or thought about going into the British forces. I've always been interested in the army, and the more stuff I read about the current conflicts and what not around the world, the more I'm sort of regretting not looking into joining sooner.

I'm still just thinking about it at the minute though. I've got an alright job doing web development with decent pay, and a settled life and what not, plus I'm at uni (doing more web development) but later in my life I think I'll regret not at least giving it a try. I'd like a challenge, and to be honest I'd rather not spend the rest of my life sat behind a computer.

I would need to do a hell of a lot of working out to get anywhere near the fitness level required, but that can't be a bad thing I suppose.

Just wondering what people's opinions were and whether it's anything that anyone else has considered. Many people join the army because they're not qualified for anything else, but despite my qualifications, I genuinely think I want to do something like this...

Discuss.
Massacre
If it interests you, then go for it. It's certainly worth a try. Also, I can't speak for the UK, but in America, it's much easier to get a job (any job) if you have military experience, so that would only add to your qualifications, and the military tends to be a positive experience for most people, aside from all the obvious risks.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
The British army basically pay me to go on skiing holidays.

Thanks to our massively overblown and mismanaged defence budget, they spend a lot on initiatives to get people to join -- because I'm doing a degree which could in the future make me useful to them, they pay me more money than is polite to talk about in student circles to go off and do laddish things in Europe for a week with others like me. It's not bad.

I'm not sure how a computer based degree would help your prospects in the army -- leaflets for the Practical and Professional University Officer Training Corps were given to all students applying for Medicine, Structural and Civil Engineering, and I think Chemistry, at my school a few years ago.

For any students, the University Officer Training Corps offers a chance for students to see what the army is like, above grunt level.

Pay is also amazing. If I were to pass my finals and become an NHS physician, I'd be looking at £46,000 per annum after my FYs (ie when I am 25). In the RAMC, it would be more like £52,000, but with lower taxes, accommodation taken care of for much of the year and a massively reduced annual food budget, you're looking at masses more money in your pocket. After I've served the obligatory 5 years, I'll be richer than a 30 year old has any right to be. Or so the plan goes.

My salary at the moment - and let me remind you I do nothing for the army except avoid becoming fat - is over £15,000, as you can see from this fine table. It can be seen that the army pays people way too much to do nothing. So I would say go for it.
koneko
Do you know specifically what you want to do in the army, and do you know for a fact that that's what you'd get assigned to? That's how a lot of people end up either as infantry [I'm guessing that's still what it's called] or just doing something else they don't like for however many years the contract is. At least find out exactly what you would be doing.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
I should imagine Psy would be given over to something in comms, something computer-based, maybe in security.

I know I'll be a medic, obviously.
Bitch Heartless
Be like me..

I joined the Army thinking i was going to be a mechanic but at the last second pick a combat mos..

don't regret it.. i dont mind holding an m4 all day..

but im in the us army.. i dont know how the british army is.. just look into it..
Psy
I'd like to be in the infantry. Wouldn't really see the point joining the army just to sit behind a computer all day. Cheers for the details though mello, sounds pretty interesting.
Indy
When I wanted to dentistry i was looking at the RAF. Now I wanna do medicine, the Army looks like a better choice. Though i'm really not liking the minimum compulsary service time, 5 or 6 years, w/e it was. Jus some questions mello, to get the cadet salary or w/e the link was to, at the end med school, would it be compulsary to join the army. Or can I just go straight into a regular job.
NCP
Just before the Dutch/UK joined landing force stopped working together I did an exercise with them and though it's not the army it still is infantry. I thought they were well trained and trust me with the right mindset you could come a long way, even when you're not really fit. Fitness is something I use when I have an injury, so I can train one part at a time. I train by running at least 3 times a week for 3 miles or more. Other than that I do pushups, situps and pullups. If you can run 3,5 miles in under 20 minutes, you should be fine. If you can do more than 50 good pushups, you are fine, 60 or more for situps and if you manage more than 10 pullups it's really good. And by pullups I mean like you would lift yourself over a large wall and then hang all the way down. This way you should be fit enough for the Royal Marines, if you have the right mindset.
DiO
I don't think you can go wrong joining the army. But I would finish up whatever schooling your are currently doing before joining.
Psy
I was thinking about that, but this degree that I've just started has got at least another 2 and a half years to go, possibly 3 and a half if I do the placement year, so I'd be coming up to 25 by then. Is that not a bit late to be joining the army?
Bitch Heartless
^

I seen older..

But I did join when I was 17..
DiO
QUOTE(Psy @ Jan 7 2009, 01:14 PM) [snapback]1478017[/snapback]
I was thinking about that, but this degree that I've just started has got at least another 2 and a half years to go, possibly 3 and a half if I do the placement year, so I'd be coming up to 25 by then. Is that not a bit late to be joining the army?



I don't know. If you do join the army and not like it I suppose you could go back to your schooling.
koneko
Isn't it true that the more schooling you've completed, the higher your starting rank is?
Psy
I'm sure I read something about that. Obviously the more qualified you are the better chance you have of becoming an officer.
Kuwong
I honestly don't see the point. Yes, it's honourable to the country, joining the armed forces. But the fact is, you'd just get shipped to Iraq to fight for oil, etc. If I was you, I wouldn't. You've got what sounds like a well paying job, another degree to earn, which results in better money.
I know it's not all about money, but you have to consider do you really want this? Not having the luxuries of your home. Perhaps not getting to play the next GTA game when it's released. wink.gif
Mohawk
I think you should go for it right now...
25 is a bit old for joining the army, specially if you want infantry. I mean, usually at 25 people already left the military.
Can't you put a hold in your studies? And if you just started, why not do it again after a couple of years fighting for your country. It should be way easier to get a job after leaving the army, but I don't think infantry is a good option, you could be learning a lot form doing some computer realated work, I know people that only had guns in their hands during boot camp, but still, they had a awesome time in there, and the best phisical condition in their life. just because you are behind a computer it doesn't mean that you will get it easy... by the way, I think the Navy is more "fun"... but if you want to be the best, I think the Marines is the most complete branch of the military in any country.
NCP
Hell Yeszzz!!!
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
QUOTE(Ind• @ Jan 7 2009, 04:02 PM) [snapback]1477992[/snapback]
When I wanted to dentistry i was looking at the RAF. Now I wanna do medicine, the Army looks like a better choice. Though i'm really not liking the minimum compulsary service time, 5 or 6 years, w/e it was. Jus some questions mello, to get the cadet salary or w/e the link was to, at the end med school, would it be compulsary to join the army. Or can I just go straight into a regular job.
To get that salary, it's 5 years compulsory service. There's a loophole apparantly, but I never looked into it. I'd rather not. Don't worry about money, deary, you'll be fine. But the army will get you more, if that's what ya into.


QUOTE(Psy @ Jan 7 2009, 06:14 PM) [snapback]1478017[/snapback]
I was thinking about that, but this degree that I've just started has got at least another 2 and a half years to go, possibly 3 and a half if I do the placement year, so I'd be coming up to 25 by then. Is that not a bit late to be joining the army?
It's when I'll be starting anyways.


QUOTE(koneko @ Jan 7 2009, 09:17 PM) [snapback]1478046[/snapback]
Isn't it true that the more schooling you've completed, the higher your starting rank is?
Yes.
Bain
QUOTE(koneko @ Jan 7 2009, 01:34 AM) [snapback]1477959[/snapback]
Do you know specifically what you want to do in the army, and do you know for a fact that that's what you'd get assigned to? That's how a lot of people end up either as infantry [I'm guessing that's still what it's called] or just doing something else they don't like for however many years the contract is. At least find out exactly what you would be doing.


Only the stupid people turn out in a job they didnt want.
Bitch Heartless
^Yup.. Thats why you pick your own contract right?
TwoFacedTanner
I'd say go for it, Psy.
I've finally gotten over my laziness and am going tomorrow to see the Navy recruiter. Weather I join right now or not, I haven't decided. But I do plan on enlisting within the year.

It'll be an experience, no doubt.
But also, its a big decision.
new major on the block
QUOTE(TwoFacedTanner @ Jan 12 2009, 07:06 AM) [snapback]1478568[/snapback]
I'd say go for it, Psy.
I've finally gotten over my laziness and am going tomorrow to see the Navy recruiter. Weather I join right now or not, I haven't decided. But I do plan on enlisting within the year.

It'll be an experience, no doubt.
But also, its a big decision.


Yeah, thats what im doing right after i graduate with my masters degree in august of this year. Straight into NOCS(Naval Officer Candidate School) Funny thing is last year i had a navy recruiter call me and was like whats your degree background and i told him architecture. And he started going on about how they have a whole architecture and engineering field. I quickly cut him off and was like dude, i'm not joining the navy to do that b.s. This degree is for when i get out of the navy, not for going in, i wanna be a pilot. You dont want to regret life and look back at what you couldve done, just get in there and take a stab at it and have fun while your there. I mean i like architecture and all but right now its not something i look foreward to doing sitting at a computer on design programs for 8 to 12 hrs daily designing a building, at least not while i'm young.
Psy
Wow, the ads on this site actually came in useful for once. Just got a link to this:
http://www.armyfit.mod.uk/

Which teaches you how to do certain exercises and you can set up a personal fitness programme and stuff. Should be useful.
Mohawk
Talking about sites... There is a great one, for those in the US, well, if you are not they still have a lot of info, but it's made for Americans that want to join or already joined the military...
http://www.military.com/
Bain
And heres for the Americans who want to do the same jobs but better faster, and more arrogantly:
http://www.military.com/Registration/Marines
psychÝ
QUOTE(Bain @ Jan 14 2009, 05:59 AM) [snapback]1478824[/snapback]
And heres for the Americans who want to do the same jobs but to your own team and more arrogantly:


To joining the army, that idea just sucks balls in every way, just become a holiday rep or something, same job, less death, more drink.
Zacko
QUOTE(Bain @ Jan 14 2009, 05:59 AM) [snapback]1478824[/snapback]
And heres for the Americans who want to do the same jobs but better faster, and more arrogantly:
http://www.military.com/Registration/Marines


Bain you still in the Marines mate? I havn't really been on this forum for ages so not sure what's happened and all but I remember you joining.
NCP
Yeah Bain is a marine and always will be. Once a marine, always a marine. Qua Patet Orbis!
Bain
Fuck yeah what he said. And yeah I am. I been in just over 13 months.
b1b23
froy
koneko
Mrs. Froy? But she was just here...
Heartless
QUOTE(koneko @ Jan 7 2009, 04:17 PM) [snapback]1478046[/snapback]
Isn't it true that the more schooling you've completed, the higher your starting rank is?


The US answers:

Yes, and no. You have the opportunity to gain more rank, and it's the only way to become an officer, or advance as one. Most generals are looking at 8 years or more at a serious university. Most people that go in with a year or two of college start at E2 or E3, though DEP programs can do the same.

Being a drop-out, I went in as E-nothing.

QUOTE(Psy @ Jan 7 2009, 07:00 AM) [snapback]1477974[/snapback]
I'd like to be in the infantry. Wouldn't really see the point joining the army just to sit behind a computer all day. Cheers for the details though mello, sounds pretty interesting.


Infantry is good, especially for the British. Most of the guys I meet didn't do anything except for standing about getting a tan. That isn't to say that was true for everyone, just the ones I met. It's a good way to go to see the world, maybe a little action, and go home all solid like.

QUOTE(Ayreon @ Jan 7 2009, 12:48 PM) [snapback]1478013[/snapback]
I don't think you can go wrong joining the army. But I would finish up whatever schooling your are currently doing before joining.


The American Army pays for schooling. You should look into seeing if you guys have a similar benefit.

QUOTE(Psy @ Jan 13 2009, 07:15 AM) [snapback]1478716[/snapback]
Wow, the ads on this site actually came in useful for once. Just got a link to this:
http://www.armyfit.mod.uk/

Which teaches you how to do certain exercises and you can set up a personal fitness programme and stuff. Should be useful.


While having a shape is a good idea, they'll work you over pretty good too, while in basic. If you are in shape, it'll be easier, which isn't always a good thing. The guys in the best shape in my company always failed at simple things. I suppose it's because the extra stress opens you up to more brainwashing, I dunno.

QUOTE(Bain @ Jan 15 2009, 08:58 PM) [snapback]1479028[/snapback]
Fuck yeah what he said. And yeah I am. I been in just over 13 months.


What's up, Devil Dog?

QUOTE(Kuwong @ Jan 7 2009, 06:04 PM) [snapback]1478064[/snapback]
I honestly don't see the point. Yes, it's honourable to the country, joining the armed forces. But the fact is, you'd just get shipped to Iraq to fight for oil, etc. If I was you, I wouldn't. You've got what sounds like a well paying job, another degree to earn, which results in better money.
I know it's not all about money, but you have to consider do you really want this? Not having the luxuries of your home. Perhaps not getting to play the next GTA game when it's released. wink.gif



This is a worthless post, pure and simple. I played more video games over there then I have in my life, no joke. When you're not killing arabs, you're in a tent with an x-box. You're not fighting for oil either. At no time did I ever post up on an oil well and defend it. I did however guard a fuel depot, since the arabs do like to steal a lot. They once stole out razor wire and attempted to sell it back.
The_Technician
QUOTE(Psy @ Jan 7 2009, 11:00 PM) [snapback]1477974[/snapback]
I'd like to be in the infantry. Wouldn't really see the point joining the army just to sit behind a computer all day. Cheers for the details though mello, sounds pretty interesting.



Psy, if you want to do it then go for it.
i finish my last year of school in November and the week after i graduate i'm signing up. I want to be a rifleman in one of the Rifles Battalions, and as a fit 18 year old my chances of seeing active duty are really high, which pleases me no end.

Why sit at a desk all day doing jobs you're not sure about when you could be abseiling down out of helos and running through taliban strongholds doing good for the entire population of the free world?

no question for me mate, i've been wating 8 years to join and in october...it'll all come together.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
QUOTE(Heartless @ Feb 5 2009, 05:16 AM) [snapback]1482091[/snapback]
QUOTE(Kuwong @ Jan 7 2009, 06:04 PM) [snapback]1478064[/snapback]
I honestly don't see the point. Yes, it's honourable to the country, joining the armed forces. But the fact is, you'd just get shipped to Iraq to fight for oil, etc. If I was you, I wouldn't. You've got what sounds like a well paying job, another degree to earn, which results in better money.
I know it's not all about money, but you have to consider do you really want this? Not having the luxuries of your home. Perhaps not getting to play the next GTA game when it's released. ;)



This is a worthless post, pure and simple. I played more video games over there then I have in my life, no joke. When you're not killing arabs, you're in a tent with an x-box. You're not fighting for oil either. At no time did I ever post up on an oil well and defend it. I did however guard a fuel depot, since the arabs do like to steal a lot. They once stole out razor wire and attempted to sell it back.
Without wanting to get into the politics of it all, that's a pretty blind analysis of it all.

Assume the war was all about oil, you could fight it entirely without seeing oil or having oil written in any section of your mandate.
Heartless
QUOTE(Amarillo Suave @ Mar 1 2009, 02:50 AM) [snapback]1487860[/snapback]
QUOTE(Heartless @ Feb 5 2009, 05:16 AM) [snapback]1482091[/snapback]
QUOTE(Kuwong @ Jan 7 2009, 06:04 PM) [snapback]1478064[/snapback]
I honestly don't see the point. Yes, it's honourable to the country, joining the armed forces. But the fact is, you'd just get shipped to Iraq to fight for oil, etc. If I was you, I wouldn't. You've got what sounds like a well paying job, another degree to earn, which results in better money.
I know it's not all about money, but you have to consider do you really want this? Not having the luxuries of your home. Perhaps not getting to play the next GTA game when it's released. wink.gif



This is a worthless post, pure and simple. I played more video games over there then I have in my life, no joke. When you're not killing arabs, you're in a tent with an x-box. You're not fighting for oil either. At no time did I ever post up on an oil well and defend it. I did however guard a fuel depot, since the arabs do like to steal a lot. They once stole out razor wire and attempted to sell it back.
Without wanting to get into the politics of it all, that's a pretty blind analysis of it all.

Assume the war was all about oil, you could fight it entirely without seeing oil or having oil written in any section of your mandate.



How? If the mission statement is "Take Baghdad" we take Baghdad. If the mission statement is, "Secure the Oil Field until Exxon Arrives"... then you get what I'm saying, right? I wasn't an officer, and maybe I'm not privvy to some top secret hush hush stuff... but then, I haven't heard anyone coming back from there saying that all their missions were to secure oil, either.
DiO
QUOTE(Heartless @ Feb 5 2009, 12:16 AM) [snapback]1482091[/snapback]
QUOTE(Ayreon @ Jan 7 2009, 12:48 PM) [snapback]1478013[/snapback]
I don't think you can go wrong joining the army. But I would finish up whatever schooling your are currently doing before joining.


The American Army pays for schooling. You should look into seeing if you guys have a similar benefit.



Pretty sure they do. I am not joining the Army though, I like my long hair too much.
psychÝ
QUOTE(Heartless @ Mar 1 2009, 11:03 AM) [snapback]1487888[/snapback]
QUOTE(Amarillo Suave @ Mar 1 2009, 02:50 AM) [snapback]1487860[/snapback]
QUOTE(Heartless @ Feb 5 2009, 05:16 AM) [snapback]1482091[/snapback]
QUOTE(Kuwong @ Jan 7 2009, 06:04 PM) [snapback]1478064[/snapback]
I honestly don't see the point. Yes, it's honourable to the country, joining the armed forces. But the fact is, you'd just get shipped to Iraq to fight for oil, etc. If I was you, I wouldn't. You've got what sounds like a well paying job, another degree to earn, which results in better money.
I know it's not all about money, but you have to consider do you really want this? Not having the luxuries of your home. Perhaps not getting to play the next GTA game when it's released. wink.gif



This is a worthless post, pure and simple. I played more video games over there then I have in my life, no joke. When you're not killing arabs, you're in a tent with an x-box. You're not fighting for oil either. At no time did I ever post up on an oil well and defend it. I did however guard a fuel depot, since the arabs do like to steal a lot. They once stole out razor wire and attempted to sell it back.
Without wanting to get into the politics of it all, that's a pretty blind analysis of it all.

Assume the war was all about oil, you could fight it entirely without seeing oil or having oil written in any section of your mandate.



How? If the mission statement is "Take Baghdad" we take Baghdad. If the mission statement is, "Secure the Oil Field until Exxon Arrives"... then you get what I'm saying, right? I wasn't an officer, and maybe I'm not privvy to some top secret hush hush stuff... but then, I haven't heard anyone coming back from there saying that all their missions were to secure oil, either.

...

I mean really are you blind they attacked one of the most oil rich countries in the world, for no reason, if you were so called humanitarians you would have gone into Zimbabwe or Darfur, now stop spouting your blind propaganda.
TwoFacedTanner
QUOTE(BAB WALTON @ Mar 1 2009, 11:14 AM) [snapback]1487913[/snapback]
QUOTE(Heartless @ Feb 5 2009, 12:16 AM) [snapback]1482091[/snapback]
QUOTE(Ayreon @ Jan 7 2009, 12:48 PM) [snapback]1478013[/snapback]
I don't think you can go wrong joining the army. But I would finish up whatever schooling your are currently doing before joining.


The American Army pays for schooling. You should look into seeing if you guys have a similar benefit.



Pretty sure they do. I am not joining the Army though, I like my long hair too much.


Ah man its about sacrifice man. Would you lose your long hair for a better life?
The military opens up opportunities for you, and if you pick up a trade you have a job waiting when you get out.
On top of that, if you stick with it, you retire after 20 yrs. Well, thats how the US Military is I dont know how Canada's works.

A friend of mine has long hair, a lip ring, and a beard(there is a picture of him in the "post a pic of yourself" topic in one of the pics I posted) and hes getting rid of that cause we're going into the Navy.

I mean, Im not like telling you to join, but if long hair is the only reason you dont wanna go...c'mon!
Heartless
QUOTE(psychÝ @ Mar 1 2009, 01:19 PM) [snapback]1487925[/snapback]
QUOTE(Heartless @ Mar 1 2009, 11:03 AM) [snapback]1487888[/snapback]
QUOTE(Amarillo Suave @ Mar 1 2009, 02:50 AM) [snapback]1487860[/snapback]
QUOTE(Heartless @ Feb 5 2009, 05:16 AM) [snapback]1482091[/snapback]
QUOTE(Kuwong @ Jan 7 2009, 06:04 PM) [snapback]1478064[/snapback]
I honestly don't see the point. Yes, it's honourable to the country, joining the armed forces. But the fact is, you'd just get shipped to Iraq to fight for oil, etc. If I was you, I wouldn't. You've got what sounds like a well paying job, another degree to earn, which results in better money.
I know it's not all about money, but you have to consider do you really want this? Not having the luxuries of your home. Perhaps not getting to play the next GTA game when it's released. wink.gif



This is a worthless post, pure and simple. I played more video games over there then I have in my life, no joke. When you're not killing arabs, you're in a tent with an x-box. You're not fighting for oil either. At no time did I ever post up on an oil well and defend it. I did however guard a fuel depot, since the arabs do like to steal a lot. They once stole out razor wire and attempted to sell it back.
Without wanting to get into the politics of it all, that's a pretty blind analysis of it all.

Assume the war was all about oil, you could fight it entirely without seeing oil or having oil written in any section of your mandate.



How? If the mission statement is "Take Baghdad" we take Baghdad. If the mission statement is, "Secure the Oil Field until Exxon Arrives"... then you get what I'm saying, right? I wasn't an officer, and maybe I'm not privvy to some top secret hush hush stuff... but then, I haven't heard anyone coming back from there saying that all their missions were to secure oil, either.

...

I mean really are you blind they attacked one of the most oil rich countries in the world, for no reason, if you were so called humanitarians you would have gone into Zimbabwe or Darfur, now stop spouting your blind propaganda.



Honest question: Are the English really this stupid? Not a flame, I'm really asking. You all have told me the same thing, we're better, rah rah rah. But I haven't spoke to a single one of you with anything worth saying. I am perplexed: If you guys are really so superior to us, why are you so fucking brain dead? I mean shit, we can just talk about movies: You seen that film Black Hawk Down? Might surprise you but, yeah, thats a true story. (Operation Gothic Serpent) And I realize that you may not know where Somalia is, but yeah, it's in Africa. And we have had countless missions in Africa. My brother-in-law was in Rwanda for the genocide, trying to keep the peace. He's a Marine.

I really have to know, are all of you really like this?
DiO
QUOTE(TwoFacedTanner @ Mar 1 2009, 01:38 PM) [snapback]1487929[/snapback]
QUOTE(BAB WALTON @ Mar 1 2009, 11:14 AM) [snapback]1487913[/snapback]
QUOTE(Heartless @ Feb 5 2009, 12:16 AM) [snapback]1482091[/snapback]
QUOTE(Ayreon @ Jan 7 2009, 12:48 PM) [snapback]1478013[/snapback]
I don't think you can go wrong joining the army. But I would finish up whatever schooling your are currently doing before joining.


The American Army pays for schooling. You should look into seeing if you guys have a similar benefit.



Pretty sure they do. I am not joining the Army though, I like my long hair too much.


Ah man its about sacrifice man. Would you lose your long hair for a better life?
The military opens up opportunities for you, and if you pick up a trade you have a job waiting when you get out.
On top of that, if you stick with it, you retire after 20 yrs. Well, thats how the US Military is I dont know how Canada's works.

A friend of mine has long hair, a lip ring, and a beard(there is a picture of him in the "post a pic of yourself" topic in one of the pics I posted) and hes getting rid of that cause we're going into the Navy.

I mean, Im not like telling you to join, but if long hair is the only reason you dont wanna go...c'mon!



No, I am going to college for Design and communications fundamentals then after that a 3 year course in Graphic Design. The 3rd year possibly in Australia (probably not). I'll have a pretty good life methinks.

TwoFacedTanner
Oh I had it all wrong then.

My apologies!
DiO
QUOTE(TwoFacedTanner @ Mar 1 2009, 06:32 PM) [snapback]1487972[/snapback]
Oh I had it all wrong then.

My apologies!



No reason for apologies. I am a sarcastic ass. I really do like my hair though.
psychÝ
QUOTE

I mean shit, we can just talk about movies: You seen that film Black Hawk Down? Might surprise you but, yeah, thats a true story.
Amazing, so is "A pursuit of Happiness", is it relevant to this, not in anyway.
QUOTE
(Operation Gothic Serpent) And I realize that you may not know where Somalia is, but yeah, it's in Africa.
Do you know what is ironic about this, firstly you presume I don't know where somalia is despite it being below the red sea and secondly you make a snide remark about geography (despite it being pretty well known that American schools barely even teach) and then say it is in Africa like you could just stroll across it on an afternoon walk, it really doesn't help its geographical location at all, saying it is in africa doesn't mean you know where it is.

QUOTE
My brother-in-law was in Rwanda for the genocide, trying to keep the peace. He's a Marine.
Vast difference between peace keeping and fixing the problem

Once again this whole idea being irrelevant, an attack for no reason on a sovereign nation still occur because it had, unaccessible oil and don't give me any of this saving the Iraqie people crap, the whole reason you attack was because there were WMDs which there weren't and it wouldn't surprise me if the bush administration knew this.
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