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0bs3n3
Why is it okay for someone to be openly communist, but if someone says they are fascist they are branded racist, nazi and despised. Why is fascism despised anyway? Because Hitler ordered the killing of 6 million people (holocaust). Then why isn't communism despised further then fascism when Stalin killed 30 million? Now your probably going to say, 'oh liek coz the cold war iz over' well WWII was over 60 years ago.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
Communism and Russian totalitarianism aren't the same thing. Nazism and German autoritarianism, leading to genocide ARE the same thing. A communist's only intrinsic belief is that of Karl Marx's economic treatises, and does not extend into Soviet practice (most specifically the gulags). Nazis, by definition, support ethnic cleansing, racial classification and nationalism. I would love this to be the end of the argument, but I know someone that doesn't understand what communism means will come in and dispute this. So:

QUOTE(Chambers)
Nazi noun (Nazis) 1. historical a member of the German National Socialist Party (see under National Socialism), which came to power in Germany in 1933 under Adolf Hitler. 2. derog colloq someone with extreme racist and dogmatic opinions. Nazification noun. Nazified adj referring to a person or nation, etc that has adopted Nazism. Nazism noun the principles of the Nazis; the Nazi movement.
Note, member of the NSDAP.

QUOTE(Chambers)
communist noun 1. a supporter of or believer in communism. 2. (often Communist) a member of a communist party. Often shortened to commie. adj 1. relating to communism. 2. believing in or favouring communism. Often shortened to commie.
Note, member of any communist party.



As a footnote, I'd like to add that 65-100million people died because of European nationalism, and more specifically Nazism. The death camps were not the beginning and end of WWII.
BIG FUCKING SPIDER
Fascism does not have to include genocide, National Socialism and Fascism are different things. For example Mussolini in Italy was not Anti Semitic, he only was when put under pressure from Hitler.

It wasn't just European nationalism that caused all deaths in WWII, it was Japanese imperial ambitions as well.
0bs3n3
I thought someone would say that communism and stalinism are different, but so is Facism and Nazism. Like BFS said above me, Mussolini was fascist (although a MASSIVE try hard you have to admit) but he didn't commit any genocide. Just like Franco in fascist Spain. In fact, Mussolini was against the anschluss of Austria by Germany in 1938.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
Fascism is especially associated with European nationalism, that's the beginning and end of it. While there may have been dissent among fascists, they showed a pretty united front in practice. While Italy might not have carried out or supported genocide, they sure as anything put their heart and soul (or not, in the case of the actual soldiers) into fighting for it.
0bs3n3
But Franco in Spain didn't fight. I'm not denying the fact that fascism is nationalist though, but NEITHER of the two movements (fascism and communism) do any good for the world.
Qdeathstar
Well, I think the reason is really simple.

Fascism represents today, any form of oppression/bad government. IE "The Fascist Cops", The "Bush the Fascist". People say things without actually knowing what the mean, and so they start to hold that meaning.

I think that the history of the words is irrelevant.. its just what the definition of it is at the time according to the public..

As far as communism goes.. I think that most people who live in the united states and claim to be "communist" don't know what it really is, besides something that the United States isn't.. so they're all like "Fuk america I'm communist" without putting much thought into it. I mean, i'd really doubt they'd be willing to give up there plush job at starbucks and their brand new car to work in the fields producing food for the community to enjoy, while they live in a crap shack.

The Purest Communist thought means you don't own nothing. Not your house, not your car, nothing. There is not state religion, and religion itself is looked down upon. Your sole purpose in life is to support the community, whether or not they coincide with your own self interest. And in state sponsored communist, the state is the community.

If your for that.. then.. uh. Good for you. But like i said, most people just saying it to be "rebel" or whatever.


As for a dictatorship.. the thing about that is.. if you get a good leader, then its great.. If you get a shitty one.. then it probably won't work out as well. The roman empire had many great leaders.. but it only took a couple really crappy ones to destroy the entire empire..
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
Communism was intended to do good for the world, though. Fascism was a sick nationalist revenge fantasy cooked up by leaders with Napoleon complexes. There's a difference in intent, if not with end product.
BIG FUCKING SPIDER
QUOTE(Amarillo Suave @ Jan 29 2008, 05:36 PM) [snapback]1390840[/snapback]
Communism was intended to do good for the world, though. Fascism was a sick nationalist revenge fantasy cooked up by leaders with Napoleon complexes. There's a difference in intent, if not with end product.

Fascism intended to look after their own(E.G Mussolini after the Italians). I mean, Hitler was a fucking madman when concerned with non Northern Europeans, but he turned around the ordinary Germans life from the shit they had put up with for 15 years following WWI. In a sence Fascists are only concerned with their own race or nationality.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
In every sense. It's not exactly a utilitarian notion.

I'm not so sure about the standard economic defence of Nazism, a few things I've read suggested it was very tenuous growth, and needed the war to prop it up after a few years.
Qdeathstar
QUOTE(Amarillo Suave @ Jan 29 2008, 04:36 PM) [snapback]1390840[/snapback]
Communism was intended to do good for the world, though. Fascism was a sick nationalist revenge fantasy cooked up by leaders with Napoleon complexes. There's a difference in intent, if not with end product.



German Fascism was intended to do good for Germany... And for some while, it did. The chosen people lived quite well.. for some period.
Severus Snape
QUOTE(Amarillo Suave @ Jan 28 2008, 07:25 AM) [snapback]1390561[/snapback]
Fascism is especially associated with European nationalism, that's the beginning and end of it. While there may have been dissent among fascists, they showed a pretty united front in practice. While Italy might not have carried out or supported genocide, they sure as anything put their heart and soul (or not, in the case of the actual soldiers) into fighting for it.


That's like saying all muslims are shiite jihadists who want to kill everyone for Allah. Which totally isn't true. (note - I am NOT a muslim. so don't even think about calling me one, or bashing me cuz I am one.)
NCP
Except that being a muslim is something religious and being a fascist is something political. Often you're born a moslim and you'll get your political stance later in life, because you don't get to vote before your 18th birthday.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Jan 29 2008, 09:22 PM) [snapback]1390881[/snapback]
QUOTE(Amarillo Suave @ Jan 29 2008, 04:36 PM) [snapback]1390840[/snapback]
Communism was intended to do good for the world, though. Fascism was a sick nationalist revenge fantasy cooked up by leaders with Napoleon complexes. There's a difference in intent, if not with end product.



German Fascism was intended to do good for Germany... And for some while, it did. The chosen people lived quite well.. for some period.
For a start, "The Chosen People" are the Jews. They did not live well. Or at all.

It was intended to do well for a handful of people at the expense of many more. It was not exactly idealistic.
QUOTE(Arch Angel @ Jan 30 2008, 03:12 PM) [snapback]1390990[/snapback]
QUOTE(Amarillo Suave @ Jan 28 2008, 07:25 AM) [snapback]1390561[/snapback]
Fascism is especially associated with European nationalism, that's the beginning and end of it. While there may have been dissent among fascists, they showed a pretty united front in practice. While Italy might not have carried out or supported genocide, they sure as anything put their heart and soul (or not, in the case of the actual soldiers) into fighting for it.


That's like saying all muslims are shiite jihadists who want to kill everyone for Allah. Which totally isn't true. (note - I am NOT a muslim. so don't even think about calling me one, or bashing me cuz I am one.)
No, no it isn't. In no way is it like that >_>
Qdeathstar
QUOTE(Amarillo Suave @ Jan 30 2008, 06:44 PM) [snapback]1391024[/snapback]
For a start, "The Chosen People" are the Jews. They did not live well. Or at all.


They are the chosen people to the jews.. on the other hand to the Aryans.. Aryans were the chosen people. Don't be a twat.

QUOTE
It was intended to do well for a handful of people at the expense of many more. It was not exactly idealistic.


For the chosen Aryan race... It was idealistic, if you were Aryan.
NCP
My family is Aryan and they didn't enjoy WW2...Most of Germany and The Netherlands consist out of the Aryan race, but fascism in Germany only made it easy for the high class of Germany and Austria.
Qdeathstar
QUOTE(NCP @ Feb 1 2008, 01:16 PM) [snapback]1391402[/snapback]
My family is Aryan and they didn't enjoy WW2...Most of Germany and The Netherlands consist out of the Aryan race, but fascism in Germany only made it easy for the high class of Germany and Austria.


That may have been the result, but it wasn't the design.
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