Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Being a zombie now possible!
iGrandTheftAuto.com Forums > GTA4.TV/GTA-SanAndreas.com Archive > Old Forum Archive (Read Only) > General > Political & World Issues
Mad Space Ghost
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15739502-13762,00.html

Was lurking 7chans /zom/ and came over this news article it appears that they can ressurect scientifically dead animals (soon to do human trials) from a scientifically declared death (no brain activity no heart beating etc) by draining all the blood from the body with a type of salt solution and filling the subject with oxygen and giving a electrical shock to revive and restart the heart. (3) Zombie dogs were created using this method.

Which sparks the quesiton is this moral?

I mean shit cloning NOW FUCKING ZOMBIES!

Wtf will happen when human trials commence their alot of shit that could go down regaurding mental state and brain activity and heart rate. Sorta like I am legend and Dawn of the dead. These scenarios are now becoming very VERY likely with this study and with human trials commencing soon it only leaves one to think.
psychÝ
How does it make any questions all they are doing is temporarily preserving you and considering this was written in 2005 and it is now 2008 and not much seems to have been done kind of speaks for itself.

I can't really see the human brain being able to survive through that process, plus the fact if you have massive blood lose then all the saline liquid is going to come out again.
Austin
Brining things back to life after they're dead doesn't raise any questions, psycho? I worry about you.



This is so fucked up I find it hard to believe.. the dogs were 100% dead, and they brought them back to life, WTF?
Skinny†
QUOTE(КŚгmД @ Jan 24 2008, 01:36 AM) [snapback]1388669[/snapback]
Sorta like I am legend and Dawn of the dead. These scenarios are now becoming very VERY likely with this study and with human trials commencing soon it only leaves one to think.

Well, I dunno if we'd see anything that extreme, but I'm still actualy a little worried.
psychÝ
QUOTE(Austin @ Jan 23 2008, 03:37 PM) [snapback]1388736[/snapback]
Brining things back to life after they're dead doesn't raise any questions, psycho? I worry about you.

What is the difference between that and a defibrillator.

Doesn't raise any questions in my mind, presuming it works, which they are far from proving, I couldn't really care.

How exactly is dawn of the dead going to happen, some people have no concept of the human anatomy.

QUOTE
This is so fucked up I find it hard to believe.. the dogs were 100% dead
They also killed it, may work in the lab I doubt it would in there example of a battlefield.
Ex-PS Fanboy
thats fuckin creppy, makes me think were a few years from resident evil becoming real

also, did the article say how long the dogs were dead, is like a time limit, can the tings only be brought back if there like a couple hours dead, or like weeks, months, or i doubt this but anyway, years dead?
Mad Space Ghost
Psycho you idiot the dogs were 3 HOURS SCIENTIFICALLY DEAD. That means its over no game nukka, no defib, no nothing, your dead. This completely REANIMATED a fully dead subject that was gone for 3 hours. they can only defib so much before thier gone.

Defibulators only work as long as their intended target isnt COMPLETLEY scientifically dead.
Sharpie Fetish
It'll all end in tears the dogs will start biting other stuff passing on the virus and it will be dawn of the dead all over again
psychÝ
QUOTE(КŚгmД @ Jan 23 2008, 05:56 PM) [snapback]1388809[/snapback]
Psycho you idiot the dogs were 3 HOURS SCIENTIFICALLY DEAD. That means its over no game nukka, no defib, no nothing, your dead. This completely REANIMATED a fully dead subject that was gone for 3 hours. they can only defib so much before thier gone.

Defibulators only work as long as their intended target isnt COMPLETLEY scientifically dead.

You don't even know what scientifically dead is.

They drained them of blood while they were still alive then put in the saline solution leave them for 3 hours, remove it and put the 100% oxygenated blood back in and shock them big woop.

It has fuck all to do with zombies or any of that shit.

QUOTE
It'll all end in tears the dogs will start biting other stuff passing on the virus and it will be dawn of the dead all over again
...

Of course rolleyes.gif

QUOTE
Defibulators only work as long as their intended target isnt COMPLETLEY scientifically dead.
Eh, No.

Clearly none of you know what the fuck you are on about, it is quite hilarious.
Pieface
There are some things that shouldn't be done. this being one of them...

We're alread getting overcrowded as it is and if this actually worked they'd just make the world even more crowded.
Qdeathstar
guys.. they aren't even zombies.. they take the blood out and put extremely cold water into the body, to "suspend" the body for a certain amount of time.. then they take the water out and put blood back in...

Haven't you ever heard of victims who have fallen into ponds covered in ice, they were clinically dead, but when they warmed up they woke up?
Screw Loose
I don't think this literally means zombie. They are just clinically dead for a while, and then the oxygenated blood is put back in just as before. I think its the same exact thing if you get your finger chopped of by an engine or something, and you go to the doctor and get it surgically re-attached

I think if they did this to a human, The human would re-awaken a RETARD, because the time being clinically dead would've killed off too many of their brain cells. So many brain cells they probably wouldn't even be able to breathe on their own, let alone walk and attack regualar alive people, just like the song "ONE" by Metallica

anybody agree or disagree with me?
Jesseeast
Hmm, I would say if I could tell them something I would say don't test it any longer... Because if they made a human zombie and it started biting people well were probably all going to die soon. I already planned what Im doing if the world start's turning into zombie roflcopter.
Skinny†
Sure psycho, you are the only one on the forum who knows anything.

We are all quite inferior.
Ophis-
QUOTE(Recruit CyanTist @ Jan 23 2008, 06:38 PM) [snapback]1388822[/snapback]
It'll all end in tears the dogs will start biting other stuff passing on the virus and it will be dawn of the dead all over again



Who said anything about a virus?

And also, if a 'human' was to 'come back to life' who says they will want to bite other humans? You guys watch and believe movies way to much. You'll start going on about how watching violent video clips over and over again infects you with the Rage virus that can then be passed onto others via blood next.... lol.

This new revival technique only seems to work when they kill the dog in the first place to prepear it to live again. Woop'de'doo.



(lol at somebody saying it'll be resident evil in a few years.... so where will all the guns and camera crew come from? your pocket?)
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
QUOTE(КŚгmД @ Jan 23 2008, 02:36 PM) [snapback]1388669[/snapback]
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,15739502-13762,00.html

Was lurking 7chans /zom/ and came over this news article it appears that they can ressurect scientifically dead animals (soon to do human trials) from a scientifically declared death (no brain activity no heart beating etc) by draining all the blood from the body with a type of salt solution and filling the subject with oxygen and giving a electrical shock to revive and restart the heart. (3) Zombie dogs were created using this method.

Which sparks the quesiton is this moral?

I mean shit cloning NOW FUCKING ZOMBIES!

Wtf will happen when human trials commence their alot of shit that could go down regaurding mental state and brain activity and heart rate. Sorta like I am legend and Dawn of the dead. These scenarios are now becoming very VERY likely with this study and with human trials commencing soon it only leaves one to think.
What the hell are you talking about?

These scenarios aren't even slightly likely.
psychÝ
QUOTE(Screw Loose @ Jan 24 2008, 01:29 AM) [snapback]1388959[/snapback]
I don't think this literally means zombie. They are just clinically dead for a while, and then the oxygenated blood is put back in just as before. I think its the same exact thing if you get your finger chopped of by an engine or something, and you go to the doctor and get it surgically re-attached
Finally someone worked it out.

QUOTE
I think if they did this to a human, The human would re-awaken a RETARD, because the time being clinically dead would've killed off too many of their brain cells. So many brain cells they probably wouldn't even be able to breathe on their own, let alone walk and attack regualar alive people, just like the song "ONE" by Metallica

I think the point of the discovery is that the dog was "fine", I can see there being problems in humans, let alone all the people and there ethical issues.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
QUOTE(Austin @ Jan 23 2008, 03:37 PM) [snapback]1388736[/snapback]
Brining things back to life after they're dead doesn't raise any questions, psycho? I worry about you.



This is so fucked up I find it hard to believe.. the dogs were 100% dead, and they brought them back to life, WTF?
Lol@100% dead. There's no such thing. The scientific definition has changed so many times, it's entirely arbitrary.


QUOTE(PS FANBOY @ Jan 23 2008, 05:53 PM) [snapback]1388807[/snapback]
thats fuckin creppy, makes me think were a few years from resident evil becoming real

also, did the article say how long the dogs were dead, is like a time limit, can the tings only be brought back if there like a couple hours dead, or like weeks, months, or i doubt this but anyway, years dead?
Assuming vital cells would decompose after a time.


QUOTE(КŚгmД @ Jan 23 2008, 05:56 PM) [snapback]1388809[/snapback]
Psycho you idiot the dogs were 3 HOURS SCIENTIFICALLY DEAD. That means its over no game nukka, no defib, no nothing, your dead. This completely REANIMATED a fully dead subject that was gone for 3 hours. they can only defib so much before thier gone.

Defibulators only work as long as their intended target isnt COMPLETLEY scientifically dead.
Defibrilators are equally unnatural. So are your clothes. It's just complete ignorance of medicine, and complete fixation on a frame of reference that could see this "reanimation" as anything but progress.


QUOTE(Recruit CyanTist @ Jan 23 2008, 06:38 PM) [snapback]1388822[/snapback]
It'll all end in tears the dogs will start biting other stuff passing on the virus and it will be dawn of the dead all over again
What virus? Do you even know what a virus is?


QUOTE(Pieface @ Jan 23 2008, 09:09 PM) [snapback]1388860[/snapback]
There are some things that shouldn't be done. this being one of them...

We're alread getting overcrowded as it is and if this actually worked they'd just make the world even more crowded.
Not really an adequate argument. We could use the same logic to scrap the NHS and ban defibrilators. And clothes.


QUOTE(Jesseeast @ Jan 24 2008, 01:45 AM) [snapback]1388965[/snapback]
Hmm, I would say if I could tell them something I would say don't test it any longer... Because if they made a human zombie and it started biting people well were probably all going to die soon. I already planned what Im doing if the world start's turning into zombie roflcopter.
Why would it bite people? That's pure fantasy.


QUOTE(Daz @ Jan 24 2008, 12:11 PM) [snapback]1389124[/snapback]
QUOTE(Recruit CyanTist @ Jan 23 2008, 06:38 PM) [snapback]1388822[/snapback]
It'll all end in tears the dogs will start biting other stuff passing on the virus and it will be dawn of the dead all over again



Who said anything about a virus?

And also, if a 'human' was to 'come back to life' who says they will want to bite other humans? You guys watch and believe movies way to much. You'll start going on about how watching violent video clips over and over again infects you with the Rage virus that can then be passed onto others via blood next.... lol.

This new revival technique only seems to work when they kill the dog in the first place to prepear it to live again. Woop'de'doo.



(lol at somebody saying it'll be resident evil in a few years.... so where will all the guns and camera crew come from? your pocket?)
Quoted for level-headedness.
Ophis-
QUOTE(mello_yello @ Jan 24 2008, 02:31 PM) [snapback]1389165[/snapback]
We could use the same logic to scrap the NHS and ban defibrilators. And clothes.


Thats probably more likly then the shite these guys are throwing out.


Back on topic tho...

If the world was about to be doomed, i'm 99% certain i won't be killed by a bite from a fella who was lucky enough to have a life saving procedure after he was announced "clinicly/medicaly/idontgiveafuckly" dead. Even if he was to bite me, the most he could do is knock me out by his bad breath. After all, who knows how long he was dead for... worms and everything.
Hardcore Ottoman
They put them in a state of pure hypothermia... after they put them to sleep. I have doubts an injured soldier will reanimate in the same way without brain damage.

QUOTE(scientists)
The lucky ones turn out to be perfectly normal with no brain damage ó although other dogs are stricken with serious physical or behavioral problems.


Hmm, they go on to wisely admit that they don't expect every subject to come out generally fine. But it doesn't take away the feeling that this won't work for soldiers. The conditions in war are hardly controlled the way these guys have done it... so until they get a soldier who gives consent to be a guinea pig I will wait and hold my full judgment.
psychÝ
QUOTE(punxtr @ Jan 25 2008, 12:03 AM) [snapback]1389516[/snapback]
They put them in a state of pure hypothermia... after they put them to sleep. I have doubts an injured soldier will reanimate in the same way without brain damage.

QUOTE(scientists)
The lucky ones turn out to be perfectly normal with no brain damage — although other dogs are stricken with serious physical or behavioral problems.


Hmm, they go on to wisely admit that they don't expect every subject to come out generally fine. But it doesn't take away the feeling that this won't work for soldiers. The conditions in war are hardly controlled the way these guys have done it... so until they get a soldier who gives consent to be a guinea pig I will wait and hold my full judgment.

It is beside the point, the whole point is that it can be done, of course it isn't going to work all the time, but that just means they have to work out why it doesn't, and theoretically it could have other applications when more research is done such as long range space travel where people are put in reanimation until they reach the destination.

Or even with injured soldiers if you fill there body with it then you can just plug the holes as blood no longer needs to flow which is why you can't do it in the first place.

But of course there are loads of problems such as how do you get something that is 7 degrees onto a battlefield, I can see it working in a few cases.
Hardcore Ottoman
I don't intend to be entirely pessimistic. I merely will hold my judgment until I see some human trials, no matter how heartless it may sound to most.
Ophis-
End of the day, i still see this thing doing alot more good then it can possibly do harm. Hense the reason they have done it, but it is an old article, lets wait a few more years before judgement.
HotRaper
Resident Evil right there !! lool
Ophis-
QUOTE(HotRaper @ Jan 25 2008, 01:26 PM) [snapback]1389721[/snapback]
Resident Evil right there !! lool


Gowd, not another one, did you read any of the other posts?
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
iirc it was first done in 2005 so we have waited a few years already v.gif
Marneyo Juano
...and the virus spreads in the underground labs that did this experiment, they are already overrun by zombies that are ready to take over the world
DiO
QUOTE(Daz @ Jan 25 2008, 08:37 AM) [snapback]1389729[/snapback]
QUOTE(HotRaper @ Jan 25 2008, 01:26 PM) [snapback]1389721[/snapback]
Resident Evil right there !! lool


Gowd, not another one, did you read any of the other posts?



probably not.


heres a fucked up question. if there was a dead person living, and you killed them, would it be murder? ohmy.gif


this is pretty cool tho. id like to see it in pratical application for space travel as psycho said.
Napoleon.
QUOTE(Giant fine gentleman @ Jan 25 2008, 02:42 PM) [snapback]1389753[/snapback]
QUOTE(Daz @ Jan 25 2008, 08:37 AM) [snapback]1389729[/snapback]
QUOTE(HotRaper @ Jan 25 2008, 01:26 PM) [snapback]1389721[/snapback]
Resident Evil right there !! lool


Gowd, not another one, did you read any of the other posts?



probably not.


heres a fucked up question. if there was a dead person living, and you killed them, would it be murder? ohmy.gif


this is pretty cool tho. id like to see it in pratical application for space travel as psycho said.


I don't think it would be murder, you'd probably get in a shitload of trouble. I'm guessing that the "zombies" are totally brain dead when they revive them and if you killed one at this point it would probably be like flipping over a table of beakers and test tubes tongue.gif
Ophis-
QUOTE(Giant fine gentleman @ Jan 25 2008, 02:42 PM) [snapback]1389753[/snapback]
if there was a dead person living,



How are they dead if they are living?


If their alive and moving then you kill them then yes, i would have thought it was murder.
TwoFacedTanner
QUOTE(psychÝ @ Jan 23 2008, 01:40 PM) [snapback]1388843[/snapback]
QUOTE
Defibulators only work as long as their intended target isnt COMPLETLEY scientifically dead.

Eh, No.

Clearly none of you know what the fuck you are on about, it is quite hilarious.


But you stated this:

QUOTE(psychÝ @ Jan 23 2008, 09:46 AM) [snapback]1388741[/snapback]
QUOTE(Austin @ Jan 23 2008, 03:37 PM) [snapback]1388736[/snapback]
Brining things back to life after they're dead doesn't raise any questions, psycho? I worry about you.

What is the difference between that and a defibrillator.


Well thats not how a defibrillator works.
It doesn't bring people back from the dead.
It stops the heart from fluttering, giving it a normal rhythm.

Sounds like someone else doesn't know what they're on about...
Iced Coke
Time to skip these questions. Tell me, how are you all defining them as "zombies" The original term referred to brain dead humans who were used as slaves in voodoo tribes. No rotting flesh dropping off. This is just really opening possibilities of a longer chance of being alive afterwards. it is just a chance to save someone after complete death. Why turn down a new medical procedure?
Don Leone
QUOTE(psychÝ @ Jan 23 2008, 03:46 PM) [snapback]1388741[/snapback]
QUOTE(Austin @ Jan 23 2008, 03:37 PM) [snapback]1388736[/snapback]
Brining things back to life after they're dead doesn't raise any questions, psycho? I worry about you.

What is the difference between that and a defibrillator.

Doesn't raise any questions in my mind, presuming it works, which they are far from proving, I couldn't really care.

How exactly is dawn of the dead going to happen, some people have no concept of the human anatomy.

QUOTE
This is so fucked up I find it hard to believe.. the dogs were 100% dead
They also killed it, may work in the lab I doubt it would in there example of a battlefield.


Maybe you should get out of the house a bit more and see the real world. Judging by the number of posts you've made, a bit of fresh air would do you good.
psychÝ
QUOTE(Don Leone @ Feb 6 2008, 12:18 AM) [snapback]1392137[/snapback]
QUOTE(psychÝ @ Jan 23 2008, 03:46 PM) [snapback]1388741[/snapback]
QUOTE(Austin @ Jan 23 2008, 03:37 PM) [snapback]1388736[/snapback]
Brining things back to life after they're dead doesn't raise any questions, psycho? I worry about you.

What is the difference between that and a defibrillator.

Doesn't raise any questions in my mind, presuming it works, which they are far from proving, I couldn't really care.

How exactly is dawn of the dead going to happen, some people have no concept of the human anatomy.

QUOTE
This is so fucked up I find it hard to believe.. the dogs were 100% dead
They also killed it, may work in the lab I doubt it would in there example of a battlefield.


Maybe you should get out of the house a bit more and see the real world. Judging by the number of posts you've made, a bit of fresh air would do you good.

Or maybe I am in the real world doing a degree in science meaning I know a lot more than you.

Hm..........lets think.

QUOTE
Well thats not how a defibrillator works.
It doesn't bring people back from the dead.
It stops the heart from fluttering, giving it a normal rhythm.

Sounds like someone else doesn't know what they're on about...
I do know that but if people didn't have them they would still die, it is the same principal.
Ruger
What the hell is with you people constantly referrering to zombie movies? Do you understand that it is a FUCKING MOVIE, not real life?
Don Leone
QUOTE(psychÝ @ Feb 6 2008, 02:39 AM) [snapback]1392153[/snapback]
QUOTE(Don Leone @ Feb 6 2008, 12:18 AM) [snapback]1392137[/snapback]
QUOTE(psychÝ @ Jan 23 2008, 03:46 PM) [snapback]1388741[/snapback]
QUOTE(Austin @ Jan 23 2008, 03:37 PM) [snapback]1388736[/snapback]
Brining things back to life after they're dead doesn't raise any questions, psycho? I worry about you.

What is the difference between that and a defibrillator.

Doesn't raise any questions in my mind, presuming it works, which they are far from proving, I couldn't really care.

How exactly is dawn of the dead going to happen, some people have no concept of the human anatomy.

QUOTE
This is so fucked up I find it hard to believe.. the dogs were 100% dead
They also killed it, may work in the lab I doubt it would in there example of a battlefield.


Maybe you should get out of the house a bit more and see the real world. Judging by the number of posts you've made, a bit of fresh air would do you good.

Or maybe I am in the real world doing a degree in science meaning I know a lot more than you.

Hm..........lets think.

QUOTE
Well thats not how a defibrillator works.
It doesn't bring people back from the dead.
It stops the heart from fluttering, giving it a normal rhythm.

Sounds like someone else doesn't know what they're on about...
I do know that but if people didn't have them they would still die, it is the same principal.



Maybe I am too.
Marneyo Juano
To cut things short, it's not making them zombies, it's another way of revival, take it easy.
Plus the experiment was taken at 2005, 3 years ago, and we don't hear anything new about it, so it probably came to a dead end.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
QUOTE(TwoFacedTanner @ Jan 25 2008, 07:15 PM) [snapback]1389814[/snapback]
QUOTE(psychÝ @ Jan 23 2008, 01:40 PM) [snapback]1388843[/snapback]
QUOTE
Defibulators only work as long as their intended target isnt COMPLETLEY scientifically dead.

Eh, No.

Clearly none of you know what the fuck you are on about, it is quite hilarious.


But you stated this:

QUOTE(psychÝ @ Jan 23 2008, 09:46 AM) [snapback]1388741[/snapback]
QUOTE(Austin @ Jan 23 2008, 03:37 PM) [snapback]1388736[/snapback]
Brining things back to life after they're dead doesn't raise any questions, psycho? I worry about you.

What is the difference between that and a defibrillator.


Well thats not how a defibrillator works.
It doesn't bring people back from the dead.
It stops the heart from fluttering, giving it a normal rhythm.

Sounds like someone else doesn't know what they're on about...
A myocardial infarction =/= atrial flutter.

Sounds like someone else doesn't know what they're on about...
QUOTE(Don Leone @ Feb 6 2008, 04:05 PM) [snapback]1392220[/snapback]
QUOTE(psychÝ @ Feb 6 2008, 02:39 AM) [snapback]1392153[/snapback]
QUOTE(Don Leone @ Feb 6 2008, 12:18 AM) [snapback]1392137[/snapback]
QUOTE(psychÝ @ Jan 23 2008, 03:46 PM) [snapback]1388741[/snapback]
QUOTE(Austin @ Jan 23 2008, 03:37 PM) [snapback]1388736[/snapback]
Brining things back to life after they're dead doesn't raise any questions, psycho? I worry about you.

What is the difference between that and a defibrillator.

Doesn't raise any questions in my mind, presuming it works, which they are far from proving, I couldn't really care.

How exactly is dawn of the dead going to happen, some people have no concept of the human anatomy.

QUOTE
This is so fucked up I find it hard to believe.. the dogs were 100% dead
They also killed it, may work in the lab I doubt it would in there example of a battlefield.


Maybe you should get out of the house a bit more and see the real world. Judging by the number of posts you've made, a bit of fresh air would do you good.

Or maybe I am in the real world doing a degree in science meaning I know a lot more than you.

Hm..........lets think.

QUOTE
Well thats not how a defibrillator works.
It doesn't bring people back from the dead.
It stops the heart from fluttering, giving it a normal rhythm.

Sounds like someone else doesn't know what they're on about...
I do know that but if people didn't have them they would still die, it is the same principal.



Maybe I am too.
Probably not, all things considered. If "get a life" is your reaction to scientific rhetoric, I doubt you're a science degree student.
Skinny†
QUOTE(psychÝ @ Feb 6 2008, 01:39 PM) [snapback]1392153[/snapback]
QUOTE(Don Leone @ Feb 6 2008, 12:18 AM) [snapback]1392137[/snapback]
QUOTE(psychÝ @ Jan 23 2008, 03:46 PM) [snapback]1388741[/snapback]
QUOTE(Austin @ Jan 23 2008, 03:37 PM) [snapback]1388736[/snapback]
Brining things back to life after they're dead doesn't raise any questions, psycho? I worry about you.

What is the difference between that and a defibrillator.

Doesn't raise any questions in my mind, presuming it works, which they are far from proving, I couldn't really care.

How exactly is dawn of the dead going to happen, some people have no concept of the human anatomy.

QUOTE
This is so fucked up I find it hard to believe.. the dogs were 100% dead
They also killed it, may work in the lab I doubt it would in there example of a battlefield.


Maybe you should get out of the house a bit more and see the real world. Judging by the number of posts you've made, a bit of fresh air would do you good.

Or maybe I am in the real world doing a degree in science meaning I know a lot more than you.

Hm..........lets think.

QUOTE
Well thats not how a defibrillator works.
It doesn't bring people back from the dead.
It stops the heart from fluttering, giving it a normal rhythm.

Sounds like someone else doesn't know what they're on about...
I do know that but if people didn't have them they would still die, it is the same principal.

No. It's quite difrent. the 'zombies' are dead while:
QUOTE
Well thats not how a defibrillator works.
It doesn't bring people back from the dead.
It stops the heart from fluttering, giving it a normal rhythm.

psychÝ
QUOTE
No. It's quite difrent. the 'zombies' are dead.


Only under one definition of death, I would personally say they in suspended animation or something similar yet to be named.
Skinny†
You know how some people freeze themselves after they die because they belive in the future we will be able to bring people back to life? Well, they are close to achiving this if it were possible to revive memories.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2014 Invision Power Services, Inc.