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Heartless
Marine Suicide

A Marine commits suicide over the things he has done. What do you guys think?
TwoFacedTanner
I don't mean to sound like a dick or anything...
But, you sign up to fight a war, you better expect to kill someone.

If he couldn't take it, its quite possible he shouldn't have signed up.
Can't say I feel bad for his family, being as they are blaming the government.
Ridiculous.
Heartless
QUOTE(TwoFacedTanner @ Nov 1 2007, 12:57 AM) [snapback]1372672[/snapback]
I don't mean to sound like a dick or anything...
But, you sign up to fight a war, you better expect to kill someone.

If he couldn't take it, its quite possible he shouldn't have signed up.
Can't say I feel bad for his family, being as they are blaming the government.
Ridiculous.


And you think you know what it takes then?
TwoFacedTanner
I didn't mean to sound like I knew what it'd take. Its just when I think of Marines, I think of elite soldiers.
Hell, I've never considered joining the military. I know I wouldn't do well at all.

I'm just saying it would take more than physical toughness though. A strong will.
I'm also not saying it isn't sad though. It's just...I don't know. I wasn't trying to sound like a heartless cockbag or anything. It's just, people commit suicide everyday because of various reasons. But because he was a marine, and he felt guilty about what he did in the war, it was on national news. I kinda feel like this is being used as Anti-War propaganda.


ALSO, When I said Ridiculous, I was just talking about the family blaming the government.
Heartless
QUOTE(TwoFacedTanner @ Nov 1 2007, 01:20 AM) [snapback]1372677[/snapback]
I didn't mean to sound like I knew what it'd take. Its just when I think of Marines, I think of elite soldiers.
Hell, I've never considered joining the military. I know I wouldn't do well at all.

I'm just saying it would take more than physical toughness though. A strong will.
I'm also not saying it isn't sad though. It's just...I don't know. I wasn't trying to sound like a heartless cockbag or anything. It's just, people commit suicide everyday because of various reasons. But because he was a marine, and he felt guilty about what he did in the war, it was on national news. I kinda feel like this is being used as Anti-War propaganda.


ALSO, When I said Ridiculous, I was just talking about the family blaming the government.


No, the issue in the video was on the level of care provided by the VA Hospital. The Hospital rejected the Marine and in turn, he killed himself. They knew he was going to do it and they allowed him to do so. At the end of the day, a Marine, a Soldier, an Airman, a Sailor, they are still humans, and they do have feelings. Should we really just shrug this off as a hazard of the job? Is there anything that can be done?

What is the overall rate of suicide for vets anyways?
TwoFacedTanner
Well damn, I missed the point completely then.
To that I can say its shit they turned him away like that because of the alcoholism.
That to me would've been a sign.
May have something to do with a lot of bullshit policies some places have.

I have no idea what I was thinking though. Trying to make this discussion into something it wasnt.
Heartless
No, no. I like it. I like to see what peoples initial impressions are. It's interesting what you jumped on first; it says a lot, about you and the country as a whole.
Mekstizzle
I didn't watch the video, but why did the Hospital reject him?
TwoFacedTanner
QUOTE(Lieutenant Cuttlefish @ Nov 1 2007, 05:58 AM) [snapback]1372687[/snapback]
No, no. I like it. I like to see what peoples initial impressions are. It's interesting what you jumped on first; it says a lot, about you and the country as a whole.


So your saying we don't pay attention to the right things, the real issues....right?
Damian
Oh god, poor guy.
Indy
I thought the marines were badasses.

But there have been alot of issues recently about the lack of government support given to ex-military or families of soldiers. Like that soldier who died whilst on his way to base in cyprus, where he worked, but because he wasn't on active duty, the government didn't give his wife a full widows pension. You may have seen it, its part of the main poppy campaigin
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7060556.stm

Bain
QUOTE(TwoFacedTanner @ Oct 31 2007, 11:57 PM) [snapback]1372672[/snapback]
I don't mean to sound like a dick or anything...
But, you sign up to fight a war, you better expect to kill someone.



Yeah, but for all you know, he shot a 9 year old pointing a gun at him, or a woman.
Maybe he had to physically abuse or sexually assault young girls to get information out of someone.

Maybe he had to shoot a bunch of people who would clearly put up no fight.

Maybe he was in a firefight and accidently shot a family running by and watched them watching their children die right after they were praising his unit being there to provide safety.


Theres things you cant talk about in the pamphlet when you sign up.


I just hope if I ever do something horrible I can live with it without being an alcoholic or drug abuser some day.

QUOTE(Van Hel Singh @ Nov 1 2007, 11:36 AM) [snapback]1372711[/snapback]
I thought the marines were badasses.


They are just people who pull more out of themselves than many others do.
Heartless
QUOTE(The Chicago Bears suck. @ Nov 1 2007, 02:54 PM) [snapback]1372725[/snapback]
I just hope if I ever do something horrible I can live with it without being an alcoholic or drug abuser some day.



I have not met the person who has. Cold sober soldiers come back raging alcholics.
Damian
QUOTE(Lieutenant Cuttlefish @ Nov 1 2007, 07:52 PM) [snapback]1372737[/snapback]
QUOTE(The Chicago Bears suck. @ Nov 1 2007, 02:54 PM) [snapback]1372725[/snapback]
I just hope if I ever do something horrible I can live with it without being an alcoholic or drug abuser some day.



I have not met the person who has. Cold sober soldiers come back raging alcholics.

Oh god that is so true, everyone I have seen have came back guzzling beer. I guess it helps them cope with killing.
Marneyo Juano
QUOTE(Lieutenant Cuttlefish @ Nov 1 2007, 09:52 PM) [snapback]1372737[/snapback]
QUOTE(The Chicago Bears suck. @ Nov 1 2007, 02:54 PM) [snapback]1372725[/snapback]
I just hope if I ever do something horrible I can live with it without being an alcoholic or drug abuser some day.



I have not met the person who has. Cold sober soldiers come back raging alcholics.


Unless you really hate your enemy. TRULY hate.
Like my dad's co-worker's son came back from the military where he was in the Gaza strip for a couple of months. He didn't drink much before the army, and didn't become an alcoholic after he came back. He shot people, he had to throw flashbang grenades into homes to clear them out before entring, and I'm sure he got to see the reaction of scared small children being blinded and disoriented, or even innocent people shot, but he came back happy, saying that he's really glad that he finally got to pay back these people who have been planning and slaughtering the people of his country, and those who are going to become ones.
Might not be like that in Iraq, after all it's much more intense, but if you don't go to war REALLY hating your enemy and your only wish is to see their brains on the floor, you shouldn't experience such a big trauma.
Heartless
QUOTE(ProbleMatiK @ Nov 1 2007, 07:08 PM) [snapback]1372753[/snapback]
QUOTE(Lieutenant Cuttlefish @ Nov 1 2007, 09:52 PM) [snapback]1372737[/snapback]
QUOTE(The Chicago Bears suck. @ Nov 1 2007, 02:54 PM) [snapback]1372725[/snapback]
I just hope if I ever do something horrible I can live with it without being an alcoholic or drug abuser some day.



I have not met the person who has. Cold sober soldiers come back raging alcholics.


Unless you really hate your enemy. TRULY hate.
Like my dad's co-worker's son came back from the military where he was in the Gaza strip for a couple of months. He didn't drink much before the army, and didn't become an alcoholic after he came back. He shot people, he had to throw flashbang grenades into homes to clear them out before entring, and I'm sure he got to see the reaction of scared small children being blinded and disoriented, or even innocent people shot, but he came back happy, saying that he's really glad that he finally got to pay back these people who have been planning and slaughtering the people of his country, and those who are going to become ones.
Might not be like that in Iraq, after all it's much more intense, but if you don't go to war REALLY hating your enemy and your only wish is to see their brains on the floor, you shouldn't experience such a big trauma.


But I wasn't conditioned from birth to hate those people, like Israelis are. I wasn't taught elementary songs about how to kill Palestinians, hate Muslims and Arabs and get ready to fight at 18. We value life in this country, as strange as it seems, and death is not something [most] people are used to. If you told me at 6 I would be an Army Soldier one day, I would have thought it was 'cool.' You guys just accept it as life.
Marneyo Juano
QUOTE(Lieutenant Cuttlefish @ Nov 2 2007, 06:25 AM) [snapback]1372778[/snapback]
QUOTE(ProbleMatiK @ Nov 1 2007, 07:08 PM) [snapback]1372753[/snapback]
QUOTE(Lieutenant Cuttlefish @ Nov 1 2007, 09:52 PM) [snapback]1372737[/snapback]
QUOTE(The Chicago Bears suck. @ Nov 1 2007, 02:54 PM) [snapback]1372725[/snapback]
I just hope if I ever do something horrible I can live with it without being an alcoholic or drug abuser some day.



I have not met the person who has. Cold sober soldiers come back raging alcholics.


Unless you really hate your enemy. TRULY hate.
Like my dad's co-worker's son came back from the military where he was in the Gaza strip for a couple of months. He didn't drink much before the army, and didn't become an alcoholic after he came back. He shot people, he had to throw flashbang grenades into homes to clear them out before entring, and I'm sure he got to see the reaction of scared small children being blinded and disoriented, or even innocent people shot, but he came back happy, saying that he's really glad that he finally got to pay back these people who have been planning and slaughtering the people of his country, and those who are going to become ones.
Might not be like that in Iraq, after all it's much more intense, but if you don't go to war REALLY hating your enemy and your only wish is to see their brains on the floor, you shouldn't experience such a big trauma.


But I wasn't conditioned from birth to hate those people, like Israelis are. I wasn't taught elementary songs about how to kill Palestinians, hate Muslims and Arabs and get ready to fight at 18. We value life in this country, as strange as it seems, and death is not something [most] people are used to. If you told me at 6 I would be an Army Soldier one day, I would have thought it was 'cool.' You guys just accept it as life.


Actually it's quite the opposite. Nobody here is conditioned from birth to hate arabs or to kill them, nobody is told bad things about them. All of the Israeli elementary schools are always teaching kids to love everyone and keep peace everywhere, be against violence and be a pussy and never fight back when you're hit. Songs are sang about eternal peace and about never losing hope for it, that one day everyone will understand the horror of their actions and stop all warfare actions. Then, in junior high, less attention is put at singing peaceful songs and more anti-violence ones. As in violence in schools and on the streets. Kids are becoming more interested in and exposed to news, and see what the arabs to do the israelis yet the israelis barely fight back (especially in the days when I was in 5th-7th grades). They feel extreme anger at the lack of response from our side and hate the arabs for blindly killing random israeli civilians. Those who were mentally strong enough in elementary school to figure out that all this anti-violence propaganda is only hurting them and they SHOULD fight back to whoever hits them and such, are filled with anger and hate for the arabs, not because they were taught to, but from their own conclusions on what they see every day in the news and in the papers. When they grow up it only strenghtens because they become even more aware and interested in what's going on in the country, such as political stuff and ofcourse the arab-israeli conflict. Their hate to the arabs for what they do on a daily basis increases every year and with every bus bombing and civilian shooting. When they are recruited into the army, they feel the full power to take revenge on those people who killed many people for no good reason. With every shot they take at an armed arab, they feel that they are taking out the huge amount of hard feelings he had gained during his school years to those people.
I know it's not like that in the US because you are far away from Iraq and what they do there doesn't really concern you, plus you don't have the rate of terrorist acts per month that Israel had a few years ago (much less bus bombings lately), and they don't do anything to you personally, nor to the people in your country, so you do not feel as much anger and hate towards them as an Israeli soldier, and I assume alot of them may end up having a serious trauma for killing people for no reason, as he thinks.
Hardcore Ottoman
Israelies are fighting to actually protect their own turf. Govt is fighting to protect their interests. The former is stronger since the govt never has at least a plurality of the population in such a mindset.
Bain
QUOTE(Lieutenant Cuttlefish @ Nov 1 2007, 02:52 PM) [snapback]1372737[/snapback]
QUOTE(The Chicago Bears suck. @ Nov 1 2007, 02:54 PM) [snapback]1372725[/snapback]
I just hope if I ever do something horrible I can live with it without being an alcoholic or drug abuser some day.



I have not met the person who has. Cold sober soldiers come back raging alcholics.


Well I rarely drink every day, and I am practically never drunk, so I probably would be in major trouble, especially since I have random depressed feelings, even though they really havent surface for a long time now.

Ever meet anyone who was depressed and came back feeling relieved, heartless?
Marneyo Juano
Don't think this is possible, bain, but your old depressed feelings might be erased and forgotten because of the new much stronger ones which you may gain during the war.
psychÝ
QUOTE(Lieutenant Cuttlefish @ Nov 1 2007, 05:09 AM) [snapback]1372673[/snapback]
QUOTE(TwoFacedTanner @ Nov 1 2007, 12:57 AM) [snapback]1372672[/snapback]
I don't mean to sound like a dick or anything...
But, you sign up to fight a war, you better expect to kill someone.

If he couldn't take it, its quite possible he shouldn't have signed up.
Can't say I feel bad for his family, being as they are blaming the government.
Ridiculous.


And you think you know what it takes then?

Completely irrelevant question as he isn't joining the marines.
Bain
QUOTE(ProbleMatiK @ Nov 2 2007, 04:55 PM) [snapback]1372878[/snapback]
Don't think this is possible, bain, but your old depressed feelings might be erased and forgotten because of the new much stronger ones which you may gain during the war.

Yay!
Marneyo Juano
QUOTE(Bain @ Nov 3 2007, 06:47 AM) [snapback]1372908[/snapback]
QUOTE(ProbleMatiK @ Nov 2 2007, 04:55 PM) [snapback]1372878[/snapback]
Don't think this is possible, bain, but your old depressed feelings might be erased and forgotten because of the new much stronger ones which you may gain during the war.

Yay!

...and then you'll suicide cause of the new feelings happy.gif
Heartless
QUOTE(ProbleMatiK @ Nov 3 2007, 04:25 AM) [snapback]1372936[/snapback]
QUOTE(Bain @ Nov 3 2007, 06:47 AM) [snapback]1372908[/snapback]
QUOTE(ProbleMatiK @ Nov 2 2007, 04:55 PM) [snapback]1372878[/snapback]
Don't think this is possible, bain, but your old depressed feelings might be erased and forgotten because of the new much stronger ones which you may gain during the war.

Yay!

...and then you'll suicide cause of the new feelings happy.gif


Yay!
Bain
QUOTE(Lieutenant Cuttlefish @ Nov 3 2007, 04:10 AM) [snapback]1372937[/snapback]
QUOTE(ProbleMatiK @ Nov 3 2007, 04:25 AM) [snapback]1372936[/snapback]
QUOTE(Bain @ Nov 3 2007, 06:47 AM) [snapback]1372908[/snapback]
QUOTE(ProbleMatiK @ Nov 2 2007, 04:55 PM) [snapback]1372878[/snapback]
Don't think this is possible, bain, but your old depressed feelings might be erased and forgotten because of the new much stronger ones which you may gain during the war.

Yay!

...and then you'll suicide cause of the new feelings happy.gif


Yay!


Yay!

Ill let you guys know first if I remember/you're still here.
Heartless
I doubt I will be. I want to do police work in DC or NYC. (Haven't chosen a city yet)
Bain
Dc is not a good city. Then again, neither is new york. But in DC people dont have guns and niggers are rampant.

But come on, you wont check this site out once every few months? Maybe if you dont have time.............I mean, in the Marines Ill still try to come here.
Heartless
I'll be working very hard and at all hours. My biggest dream is to work sex crimes, tbh.
Bain
So that way you can go around and surprise sex people and "never figure out who it is". I like your style.

Anyway, thats cool. I hope to have the same devotion I had in other aspects of life that I will in the future.
Marneyo Juano
big plans you have thurr.
good luck to ya..

and um...check in on us from time to time.
I'm not gonna be here either in a few years probably. But we'll see.
NCP
The PTSD came to my government attention a few years back, when a Dutch marine, who served in Cambodia, Haiti and Bosnia, killed half of his family in one day. People were shocked and then they started to understand how people feel when they have served somewhere. You live and work in a war zone and when you come back, all tiny things become important again and they are thinking why is it so important, we should be glad there's not a war going on back here. The marine reacted from jail that he was sorry about what he did, but he was glad that veterans now get help, because of what he did.
I think the suicide of this marine in the vid, was a better solution then what the Dutch marine did.
Hardcore Ottoman
Such a strong message shouldn't be necessary for humans to act humane. This still disgusts me.
Napoleon.
Yeah, that's fucked up. I'd never want to go to war and have that shit happen when I come back, although I don't think I'd freak out like a total dumbshit and kill my family but I'd definitely be a different person
Mad Space Ghost
Im no vet, but i know first hand that it takes alot of balls to kill someone or to even think about seriously killing someone. An army manual explains the process of stealth killing (much like splinter cell) but it also mentions some of the mental health it risks. Over the event of observing the man you are about to kill, you may not even know him, but you develop a relationship with him. You observe and become accustomed to the way he might smell, or eat, or walk, or breath, or talk. All of this makes this person you are about to kill or have killed that much specialer to you. You might even find out that this man has a family, and you would think what about his family, friend, pets?

That is why alot of soliders are put under very close observation after killing because they develop a bond with those they kill wether you relize it or not.
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