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Damian
http://www.guardian.co.uk/iran/story/0,,2192195,00.html

If this isn't enough to set the US gov't straight what will? War with Iran would be devastating enough, yea we would probably win against them but does anyone think what would happen if one of their nukes hit us(please don't come in here saying it's not possible, I'm speaking hypothetically)? If it were to hit New York we would be sent back decades, if it were to hit gas/oil/water plants cities would be ablaze and millions would die. Just like we can fuck Iran up they can fuck us up to, worst than Katrina or the bridge collapse.

If people would stop thinking with their balls for a second and with their brains they would realize that the war on terrorism is the biggest waste of time on earth. You can not destroy something that has been with us since the beginning of time, next thing you know there will be a war on grumpy faces. It's also quite sickening how Americans basically have no say in this and how weak the democrats are in congress. Which leads me to think that this "War On Terrorism" is basically just some sort of act to get whatever the Bush administration pleases, Bush has already made something that would basically make himself dictator in case anything else disastrous happens, and lets not forget that they're already spying.

Lets not forget Gonzalez who can't seem to remember shit to save his life. This administration is a freaking joke and I really don't see the point in Congress anymore if they refuse to do shit, especially the democrats who wanted to go into there to stop the war.

Well back on the subject at hand Putin has threw his hat into the game, my guess is Bush is just going to continue doing whatever he wants to support his war profiteering buddies. I think the Bush administration have really proved that they're just not cut out for their jobs and I also feel they deserve jail time(life).

Your thoughts on Putin wordz?

Just when you thought it was over...
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=07...;show_article=1
China wants in, seems as though they hijacked our search engines o_O. Seriously I'm quite disappointed in China to go to such low levels of hijacking our search engines, although they could've done way worse they chose to attack websites. My God what has Google ever done to anybody? It's bad enough that Russia and Iran are already pissed at us but now we're beginning to fuel China with angerness. If only the presidents of the United States would learn to only worry about it's own country instead of trying to police the world we wouldn't have so many people mad at us.

Yea, this war is really not far off now.
gingergenius
I agree with you on everything you say about not going to war in Iran...

but Putin is no angel. Russia is one fucked place right now, I'm not sure it wasn't better as a Communist state... certainly a lot of Russians aren't. There's thousands of rich Russians in London fleeing because of the government there, and there's a large persecution of jews, gays and so on which the government ignores.

I am by no means taking sides with anyone here but we look at Chavez, Castro, Morales etc. in Latin America with anti-Western socialist governments, they have business ties with China who in turn has huge business ties with Africa, I read recently that China and Russia are growing increasingly close, and both China and Russia have good relations in the Middle East (compared to the West).

Now I think that axis above stands for social equality, and the West stands for human freedom. I prefer social equality...
Heartless
I can't expand further atm, but this isn't WW3. This is more like a Cold War.
Damian
Yea I guess you're right about it being a Cold War but I feel that this is only a big start for WW3
Bain
Putin throws out a false statement on something out of nowhere and that means we are gonna have a world war?
Hardcore Ottoman
Well, go figure how WWI started...
TwoFacedTanner
Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated by a member of Young Bosnia...
Qdeathstar
The united states won't attack Iran. Its not in the interest of the United States to do that, and I'm sure than everyone in the US government knows it. Iran's government isn't exactly unified right now and theirs nothing like an attack from an outsider to make an ununified government, unified.

Besides, Putin is just an attention whore. he puts these notices out every so often, so we'll all still care about Russia.


If anyone attacks Iran, it will be Israel, but you can bet your ass off America is hoping they don't. It just makes no since right now.
Hardcore Ottoman
QUOTE(TwoFacedTanner @ Oct 16 2007, 10:19 PM) [snapback]1370021[/snapback]
Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated by a member of Young Bosnia...

Yes, one death not involving the entire world caused a World War... one death.
Heartless
QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Oct 16 2007, 11:04 PM) [snapback]1370026[/snapback]
The united states won't attack Iran. Its not in the interest of the United States to do that, and I'm sure than everyone in the US government knows it. Iran's government isn't exactly unified right now and theirs nothing like an attack from an outsider to make an ununified government, unified.

Besides, Putin is just an attention whore. he puts these notices out every so often, so we'll all still care about Russia.


If anyone attacks Iran, it will be Israel, but you can bet your ass off America is hoping they don't. It just makes no since right now.


But we did supply Iraq with weapons and training to expel Iranian forces from the peninsula. And now that Turkey is pulling out of a support role for the US, they plan on resuming border wars with Iraq based Kurdish separatists. And with Russia and China now supporting Iran, something we've been resisting for ages, it now looks to be signaling a new Cold War.

And how did this all start? Zero support for Bush on capitol hill. Due in large part to President Bushes popularity decline in recent years, bills that recognize the Dalai Lama for his efforts and the Armenian Genocide in Turkey have eroded relations in essential countries to keep the balance going. Congress has just shut off our two most important allies in their respective regions.

Weirdly, the US does not recognize terrorist organizations, but NWO member Rice has entered Palestine and called for their own separate state. Odd.
gingergenius
QUOTE(Cuttlefish @ Oct 17 2007, 02:39 PM) [snapback]1370038[/snapback]
QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Oct 16 2007, 11:04 PM) [snapback]1370026[/snapback]
The united states won't attack Iran. Its not in the interest of the United States to do that, and I'm sure than everyone in the US government knows it. Iran's government isn't exactly unified right now and theirs nothing like an attack from an outsider to make an ununified government, unified.

Besides, Putin is just an attention whore. he puts these notices out every so often, so we'll all still care about Russia.


If anyone attacks Iran, it will be Israel, but you can bet your ass off America is hoping they don't. It just makes no since right now.


But we did supply Iraq with weapons and training to expel Iranian forces from the peninsula. And now that Turkey is pulling out of a support role for the US, they plan on resuming border wars with Iraq based Kurdish separatists. And with Russia and China now supporting Iran, something we've been resisting for ages, it now looks to be signaling a new Cold War.

And how did this all start? Zero support for Bush on capitol hill. Due in large part to President Bushes popularity decline in recent years, bills that recognize the Dalai Lama for his efforts and the Armenian Genocide in Turkey have eroded relations in essential countries to keep the balance going. Congress has just shut off our two most important allies in their respective regions.

Weirdly, the US does not recognize terrorist organizations, but NWO member Rice has entered Palestine and called for their own separate state. Odd.


tbh I'd rather my government acted alone but morally correctly rather than sucking dicks to make friends.

Recognising the Armenian Genocide is something that every nation should do. Turkey can go fuck itself if it doesn't like it.

However, being a religious leader I think the Dalai Lama is irrelevent or at least should be. Bush should just say he thinks there are WMDs in Tibet if he wants to 'free' it.
Austin
Can't see the US attacking Iran any time soon.. they're still bogged down in that shithole Iraq to be concerned with Iran.

I agree that the "War on Terror" in it's current form is in part a waste of time.. you can't defeat underground movements like Al-Qaeda by invading countries.. because they're not conventional armies with tanks and planes etc.. they're ideologies with followers.
Bain
The US simply doesnt have the manpower if all the news articles are true.


If WW3 started we'd be fucked.
Damian
QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Oct 17 2007, 03:04 AM) [snapback]1370026[/snapback]
The united states won't attack Iran. Its not in the interest of the United States to do that, and I'm sure than everyone in the US government knows it. Iran's government isn't exactly unified right now and theirs nothing like an attack from an outsider to make an ununified government, unified.

Besides, Putin is just an attention whore. he puts these notices out every so often, so we'll all still care about Russia.


If anyone attacks Iran, it will be Israel, but you can bet your ass off America is hoping they don't. It just makes no since right now.

I'm sorry but I feel the US gearing up to attack Iran, just like they did with Iraq the media and the government is making them look nothing like humans but as animals that are just evil scumbags that need to be dealt with. Do you not see what Bush and Lieberman(just 2 examples) says? What they say alone shows the true motives of the government at the moment.

It's only a matter of time, I'll just say that.
reform
In some twisted way I would like to see a world war, in all spirit of the word "world", before I die.

And as for attacking Iran... just why!? there's plenty more countries that deserve a good kicking rather than Iran.
Austin
Nuke the crap out of that piece of shit country China for one.. still can't get over how they managed to get awarded the Olympics.
Damian
QUOTE(Austin @ Oct 17 2007, 06:01 PM) [snapback]1370077[/snapback]
Nuke the crap out of that piece of shit country China for one.. still can't get over how they managed to get awarded the Olympics.

The gov't might be stupid and evil at the moment but they're not crazy enough to do that.
TwoFacedTanner
QUOTE(Damian @ Oct 17 2007, 01:28 PM) [snapback]1370078[/snapback]
QUOTE(Austin @ Oct 17 2007, 06:01 PM) [snapback]1370077[/snapback]
Nuke the crap out of that piece of shit country China for one.. still can't get over how they managed to get awarded the Olympics.

The gov't might be stupid and evil at the moment but they're not crazy enough to do that.


Psssh. What would the Chinese do?
Throw rice at us!? Ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!

reform
THE PIGEONS WILL EXPLODE!!!!
Qdeathstar
QUOTE(Bain @ Oct 17 2007, 03:16 PM) [snapback]1370055[/snapback]
The US simply doesnt have the manpower if all the news articles are true.


If WW3 started we'd be fucked.



I disagree. This ww3 wouldn't start, because i doubt anyone would support it. A lot of people supported the Iraq war, but there are very few people that would support launching a war with Iran.

Secondly, if ww3 did start, and the American public saw it as a clear and present danger (unlike Iraq or the collective "over there") then i'm sure they would rise to the call as has happened in the past.

QUOTE(Damian @ Oct 17 2007, 04:29 PM) [snapback]1370065[/snapback]
I'm sorry but I feel the US gearing up to attack Iran, just like they did with Iraq the media and the government is making them look nothing like humans but as animals that are just evil scumbags that need to be dealt with. Do you not see what Bush and Lieberman(just 2 examples) says? What they say alone shows the true motives of the government at the moment.

It's only a matter of time, I'll just say that.


The United States will not attack Iran. They may want to appear threatening, but in reality the United States will not attack. Its just posturing. Secondly, the Iranian government is full of evil scumbags... :-/.

Lastly, Bush doens't have enough credibility to launch an attack against Iran. The very second he did it calls for impeachment would flair up and he'd be kicked out of office. There's no chance that Bush is going to get approval to attack Iran, and without it he won't do it. He doesn't have the persuasive power he used to. Everyone is waiting for him to get out of office. Democrats want to keep the focus on the Iraq war and the Republicans want to seperate themselves from that silly bush. Attacking Iran won't help either part win elections, therefore they won't attack Iran.
Heartless
I think Iran was already included in the War on Terrorism bill.
Bain
QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Oct 17 2007, 10:33 PM) [snapback]1370185[/snapback]
QUOTE(Bain @ Oct 17 2007, 03:16 PM) [snapback]1370055[/snapback]
The US simply doesnt have the manpower if all the news articles are true.


If WW3 started we'd be fucked.



I disagree. This ww3 wouldn't start, because i doubt anyone would support it. A lot of people supported the Iraq war, but there are very few people that would support launching a war with Iran.

Secondly, if ww3 did start, and the American public saw it as a clear and present danger (unlike Iraq or the collective "over there") then i'm sure they would rise to the call as has happened in the past.



I completely agree with you position but the public is one thing, money, gear, planning, etc is another.
Marneyo Juano
either way a war with Iran would be started.

The Iranian president had stated that he would do anything he can to stop the jewish state of Israel from existing. That means as soon as they have nukes, that would be a huge boost of confidence for the whole extremist Islamic world to open a huge war on Israel and the west, being backed up by Iran with it's nukes and using it as a threat against any reaction from Israel or the west.
So in my opinion bush should let the Iraqis sort their shit out alone now when they don't have such a dictatorship there, and gather some forces and resources for a massive attack on Iran before it finishes it's nuclear program.

Your point, damian, is that America should keep it's hands up it's ass and not fight terrorism? Just give up to it and let the extremists do whatever they want and spread their extremists views across the world? Great idea, great.
gingergenius
QUOTE(ProbleMatiK @ Oct 18 2007, 04:50 PM) [snapback]1370256[/snapback]
either way a war with Iran would be started.

The Iranian president had stated that he would do anything he can to stop the jewish state of Israel from existing. That means as soon as they have nukes, that would be a huge boost of confidence for the whole extremist Islamic world to open a huge war on Israel and the west, being backed up by Iran with it's nukes and using it as a threat against any reaction from Israel or the west.
So in my opinion bush should let the Iraqis sort their shit out alone now when they don't have such a dictatorship there, and gather some forces and resources for a massive attack on Iran before it finishes it's nuclear program.

Your point, damian, is that America should keep it's hands up it's ass and not fight terrorism? Just give up to it and let the extremists do whatever they want and spread their extremists views across the world? Great idea, great.


Why should defending Israel be anyone but Israel's priority? If what you say is so true (which I doubt), surely it's Israel's job to go in and attack Iran. Or are you admitting that Israel can only fight wars with the help of its big best friend.
Bain
You can make fun of Israel all you want but they consistently pwn arabs with some help. Big deal. American towel heads send money back to support terrorism, and other places too so its not like their shitty countries are without help.
Marneyo Juano
Wait a second ginger, WHO owned the fuck out of arabs without any help between 1948 and ~the 70's? Every time two arabic countries with strong armies and lots of tanks attacked, and Israel, having very little armoured vehicles and about 1/3rd the troops of another arabic country's army, kicked the arabs out of the Israeli territories.
Plus the arabs should thank America for still having some of their terriroties.
For example Israel was once a few miles away from the Lebanese capital after defeating the lebanese army, and only under heavy pressure from America it did not take over Beirut.
And may I remind you Israel had the Sinai Peninsula which is three times today's israel under it's control for almost 10 years and after long negotiations with the participation of the USA who convinced Israel to give it back, the peninsula was given back to Egypt in exchange for peace.

Anyways my point was that once Israel is attacked, the West, and firstly the US is going to be next. As I said terrorists all over the world are going to gain much more confidence and courage to make larger scaled acts, backed up by iran as a supressing threat against rough reactions from the attacked countries.

Even if Iran attacks Israel and it stays 1 on 1, Israel would probably still fuck Iran up because it's government is separated and so are their people, plus Israel has it's nuclear program and already has alot of nuclear bombs ready to use, and is going to have the most advanced missile defence system in the world in a couple of years.
gingergenius
QUOTE(ProbleMatiK @ Oct 18 2007, 08:33 PM) [snapback]1370334[/snapback]
Wait a second ginger, WHO owned the fuck out of arabs without any help between 1948 and ~the 70's? Every time two arabic countries with strong armies and lots of tanks attacked, and Israel, having very little armoured vehicles and about 1/3rd the troops of another arabic country's army, kicked the arabs out of the Israeli territories.
Plus the arabs should thank America for still having some of their terriroties.
For example Israel was once a few miles away from the Lebanese capital after defeating the lebanese army, and only under heavy pressure from America it did not take over Beirut.
And may I remind you Israel had the Sinai Peninsula which is three times today's israel under it's control for almost 10 years and after long negotiations with the participation of the USA who convinced Israel to give it back, the peninsula was given back to Egypt in exchange for peace.

Anyways my point was that once Israel is attacked, the West, and firstly the US is going to be next. As I said terrorists all over the world are going to gain much more confidence and courage to make larger scaled acts, backed up by iran as a supressing threat against rough reactions from the attacked countries.

Even if Iran attacks Israel and it stays 1 on 1, Israel would probably still fuck Iran up because it's government is separated and so are their people, plus Israel has it's nuclear program and already has alot of nuclear bombs ready to use, and is going to have the most advanced missile defence system in the world in a couple of years.


So it's alright for Israel to have nuclear weapons with its squaeky clean recent military record, but Iran can't?
Qdeathstar
QUOTE(Cuttlefish @ Oct 18 2007, 04:05 AM) [snapback]1370188[/snapback]
I think Iran was already included in the War on Terrorism bill.


No, it wasn't.

QUOTE(Bain @ Oct 18 2007, 04:42 AM) [snapback]1370196[/snapback]
QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Oct 17 2007, 10:33 PM) [snapback]1370185[/snapback]
QUOTE(Bain @ Oct 17 2007, 03:16 PM) [snapback]1370055[/snapback]
The US simply doesnt have the manpower if all the news articles are true.


If WW3 started we'd be fucked.



I disagree. This ww3 wouldn't start, because i doubt anyone would support it. A lot of people supported the Iraq war, but there are very few people that would support launching a war with Iran.

Secondly, if ww3 did start, and the American public saw it as a clear and present danger (unlike Iraq or the collective "over there") then i'm sure they would rise to the call as has happened in the past.



I completely agree with you position but the public is one thing, money, gear, planning, etc is another.



Money and Gear is relatively easy. Warbonds... If the private sector sees a growing danger they will buy warbonds.. Besides.. we can always just make more currency. It might not be good in the long run but in the short run it would provide us with funds.

Fighting a country is a whole lot easier than fighting an idea or group of people. I think the United States would be far more successful in fighting a state than a group. If Iran were to attack, it wouldn't be too hard to target their weapons and infrastructure sites.
Bain
Well I hope you're right because I would love to know we can systematically own Iran or any country in that level of power. What I find funny is how people consistently condemn Bush for plans of attacking Iran but the Iranian leader claims the holocaust never happened, and wants to destroy another country.


If that country was, say, Switzerland, would the world say fuck the swiss, or is it just cause Israel is full of jews?
Damian
Updated first post with China situation.
Austin
QUOTE(ProbleMatiK @ Oct 18 2007, 08:33 PM) [snapback]1370334[/snapback]
Wait a second ginger, WHO owned the fuck out of arabs without any help between 1948 and ~the 70's? Every time two arabic countries with strong armies and lots of tanks attacked, and Israel, having very little armoured vehicles and about 1/3rd the troops of another arabic country's army, kicked the arabs out of the Israeli territories.

Without any help? Wtf?

Israel had massive US support if I remember correctly..
Heartless
Actually, Israel is the black sheep of the world community, because they use 'barbaric' WW2 weapons and have no rules of warfare.
Marneyo Juano
QUOTE(gingergenius @ Oct 18 2007, 11:21 PM) [snapback]1370372[/snapback]
QUOTE(ProbleMatiK @ Oct 18 2007, 08:33 PM) [snapback]1370334[/snapback]
Wait a second ginger, WHO owned the fuck out of arabs without any help between 1948 and ~the 70's? Every time two arabic countries with strong armies and lots of tanks attacked, and Israel, having very little armoured vehicles and about 1/3rd the troops of another arabic country's army, kicked the arabs out of the Israeli territories.
Plus the arabs should thank America for still having some of their terriroties.
For example Israel was once a few miles away from the Lebanese capital after defeating the lebanese army, and only under heavy pressure from America it did not take over Beirut.
And may I remind you Israel had the Sinai Peninsula which is three times today's israel under it's control for almost 10 years and after long negotiations with the participation of the USA who convinced Israel to give it back, the peninsula was given back to Egypt in exchange for peace.

Anyways my point was that once Israel is attacked, the West, and firstly the US is going to be next. As I said terrorists all over the world are going to gain much more confidence and courage to make larger scaled acts, backed up by iran as a supressing threat against rough reactions from the attacked countries.

Even if Iran attacks Israel and it stays 1 on 1, Israel would probably still fuck Iran up because it's government is separated and so are their people, plus Israel has it's nuclear program and already has alot of nuclear bombs ready to use, and is going to have the most advanced missile defence system in the world in a couple of years.


So it's alright for Israel to have nuclear weapons with its squaeky clean recent military record, but Iran can't?


Yes because in all the wars throughout the hitory of Israel, the Arabs were the initiators of the wars and Israel was only defending itself, plus Israel never made any statements about destroying other countries who don't share their views on the world and religion. Unlike Iran.
If you mean the last war in Lebanon, you should get your facts straight first.
Mekstizzle
Hmm. Look. Even India and Pakistan didn't use nukes on each other. And they've had what.....4 wars now. One of them which actually took place whilst both countries had nukes. I don't think any country is mad enough to use Nukes. Even Iran, beleive it or not. They know as soon as they use one, that'll be the end of them. Not just Israel. It's called Mutually Assured Destruction, it's what stopped the USSR and USA from blowing each other to shit too.

That's why I'm for Iran having nukes, purely because countries stop invading each other when they both have them. And ties mellow down, because they're both so afraid of their destructive power. So it's actually a good thing.

I know you'll say Iran supports terrorism, so what's preventing them from giving some Nukes to Hezbollah and shifting the blame to a stateless-faction. That ain't going to happen, even the USA and USSR didn't give nukes to rogue factions that they supported to destroy each other. Because they knew it would be traced back and start a nuclear conflict. It just doesn't happen.

Nobody is that damn crazy. Not even wacko ackmedinnerjihad and his supremo ayatollah.

It's nothing like WW2 and Nazi Germany, before you start. If anything, all this anti-Iranian sentiment ...makes us feel like we're the Nazi Germany. Well not really, Iran is fucked up. They need to change their government and fast. I really wouldn't mind seeing those Ayatollahs and Ackmedinner dead.

Iran needs an Un-Islamic revolution. The women there are also simply too hot to be wearing all that covered up shit!
Marneyo Juano
QUOTE
They know as soon as they use one, that'll be the end of them. Not just Israel.

Ever heard of Jihad?
The terrorist knows he's gonna die, but he also knows he's gonna kill the people he hates, even if it's 2-3 people.
Ahmedinejad is a terrorist, and if a terrorist is in control of a country, there's nothing stopping him from comitting the same jihad but on a much larger scale. multiplied by millions of times.
Plus Ahmedinejad knows that Iran isn't the only extremist islamic country, while Israel is the only jewish country. He nukes Israel, he gets rid of like half of the jews in the world. Iran is nuked back, not even a quarter of the muslims of the world are destroyed.
Mekstizzle
He's not that fucked up. I can assure you. There are bastards out there that brainwash people into blowing themselves up and slamming into skyscrapers with commercial jets. But I don't think he's stupid enough to sacrifice his entire nation for getting rid of Israel. The Muslim world wouldn't even really support it. You see, there's the whole Persian/Arab thing. Then to split them up further more. Most Persians are Shia whilst the rest are Sunni. So it's actually quite divided.

Al Queda are Sunni, they're the ones we have to worry about. If they get nukes, which they can if Pakistan fucks up. Which they will, then that's when we're fucked.

Don't you realise that conventional war isn't how you defeat terrorism. Yet everyone wants one with Iran, but they don't know why. I'll tell you why, it's because War = $$$ for Defence Companies. You just don't make alot of Money fighting ragtag Insurgencies, they must've made a killing during the Invasion of Iraq when they had to fight Tanks and shit. Now they're getting bored and want to have a go at another country. That's what I think anyway. There are some seriously fucked up people in both the Iranian and US government.

Iran = Crazy Mullahs running it

USA = Controlled by the Jewish Lobby*, Defence Contractors and Oil Monopolies

*I find that funny tbh, I personally don't care that Jews control the USA. I got nothing against them. Infact I admire how they managed to grasp control of the biggest motherfucking country ever. You guys are getting owned. Shame.

---

It's fucked up! Both countries need to sort it self out. Good thing they're both Democratic. Well, Iran...sort of....and the US...well, sort of too.
gingergenius
QUOTE(ProbleMatiK @ Oct 19 2007, 07:46 PM) [snapback]1370598[/snapback]
QUOTE(gingergenius @ Oct 18 2007, 11:21 PM) [snapback]1370372[/snapback]
QUOTE(ProbleMatiK @ Oct 18 2007, 08:33 PM) [snapback]1370334[/snapback]
Wait a second ginger, WHO owned the fuck out of arabs without any help between 1948 and ~the 70's? Every time two arabic countries with strong armies and lots of tanks attacked, and Israel, having very little armoured vehicles and about 1/3rd the troops of another arabic country's army, kicked the arabs out of the Israeli territories.
Plus the arabs should thank America for still having some of their terriroties.
For example Israel was once a few miles away from the Lebanese capital after defeating the lebanese army, and only under heavy pressure from America it did not take over Beirut.
And may I remind you Israel had the Sinai Peninsula which is three times today's israel under it's control for almost 10 years and after long negotiations with the participation of the USA who convinced Israel to give it back, the peninsula was given back to Egypt in exchange for peace.

Anyways my point was that once Israel is attacked, the West, and firstly the US is going to be next. As I said terrorists all over the world are going to gain much more confidence and courage to make larger scaled acts, backed up by iran as a supressing threat against rough reactions from the attacked countries.

Even if Iran attacks Israel and it stays 1 on 1, Israel would probably still fuck Iran up because it's government is separated and so are their people, plus Israel has it's nuclear program and already has alot of nuclear bombs ready to use, and is going to have the most advanced missile defence system in the world in a couple of years.


So it's alright for Israel to have nuclear weapons with its squaeky clean recent military record, but Iran can't?


Yes because in all the wars throughout the hitory of Israel, the Arabs were the initiators of the wars and Israel was only defending itself, plus Israel never made any statements about destroying other countries who don't share their views on the world and religion. Unlike Iran.
If you mean the last war in Lebanon, you should get your facts straight first.


there's not much to get straight about Lebanon. A terrorist group captures 2 soldiers. In a region where people are kidnapped every day. But the Israeli army invades Lebanon over this. They bomb out Lebanese infrastructure, and committed several war crimes by destroying structures that had nothing to do with Hezbollah, on purpose. There's nothing more to say once you've seen the pictures of arts of Lebanon which the Israelis had been targeting. Only an Israeli could excuse it. And anyway, even without Lebanon, Israeli soldiers are constantly killing civilians in the West Bank and Gaza, supposedly taking out Hamas targets.

and I bolded that because Lebanon is just one example of Israel inintiating the war. Because taking 2 prisoners does not start wars just like that. And Israel was not defending itself.
Marneyo Juano
Soldiers kidnapped by arabs, missiles shot on Israel's northern cities. by arabs. and Israel's the initiator of the war? Not even funny...
Beside's, the war wasn't against lebanon, it was against the hezbollah, and Lebanese infrastructures weren't hit that bad if at all. All those buildings presented to you by the media (who use local reporters from Lebanon to report on the war) as peaceful structures were mostly launching sites. The reason there were civilians found under the debris is that they were held inside the buildings at gunpoint. Israel was kind enough to warn the citizens of the neighbourhoods that were targeted for bombing. About 24hrs before the bombing on the place, they "bombed" it with thousands of papers warning the civilians about the bombing. So there is no way people would stay in the area unless forced to, and it was proven that they were. 2 or more terrorists stayed inside the buildings that had rocket launchers in the back yards, and didn't let the civilians out. Once the place is bombed, the reporters are all over the place photographing the devastation and civilian victims.
And you believe everything the media feeds you.


@ mek - good post, you have some good points, I agree with most of it.
gingergenius
QUOTE(ProbleMatiK @ Oct 20 2007, 06:39 PM) [snapback]1370766[/snapback]
Soldiers kidnapped by arabs, missiles shot on Israel's northern cities. by arabs. and Israel's the initiator of the war? Not even funny...
Beside's, the war wasn't against lebanon, it was against the hezbollah, and Lebanese infrastructures weren't hit that bad if at all. All those buildings presented to you by the media (who use local reporters from Lebanon to report on the war) as peaceful structures were mostly launching sites. The reason there were civilians found under the debris is that they were held inside the buildings at gunpoint. Israel was kind enough to warn the citizens of the neighbourhoods that were targeted for bombing. About 24hrs before the bombing on the place, they "bombed" it with thousands of papers warning the civilians about the bombing. So there is no way people would stay in the area unless forced to, and it was proven that they were. 2 or more terrorists stayed inside the buildings that had rocket launchers in the back yards, and didn't let the civilians out. Once the place is bombed, the reporters are all over the place photographing the devastation and civilian victims.
And you believe everything the media feeds you.


@ mek - good post, you have some good points, I agree with most of it.


LMFAO

you are so washed out with propaganda it's funny. Israel is the initiator of the war - Hezbollah didn't fire missiles until Israel invaded. Lebanese infrastructures WERE hit that bad, which is why I saw news pictures of south Beirut, completely reduced to rubble, I saw a video of bombs hitting ambulances, I saw more images of a highway completely destroyed. Don't tell me the whole of South Beirut was a launching site. All Israelis say the same thing, you are all very self righteous; I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are simply led on by the ridiculous media Israel must have and not just stupid.
Qdeathstar
QUOTE(Bain @ Oct 19 2007, 04:56 AM) [snapback]1370432[/snapback]
Well I hope you're right because I would love to know we can systematically own Iran or any country in that level of power. What I find funny is how people consistently condemn Bush for plans of attacking Iran but the Iranian leader claims the holocaust never happened, and wants to destroy another country.


If that country was, say, Switzerland, would the world say fuck the swiss, or is it just cause Israel is full of jews?



The reason we can BEAT iran (at least to get them down to a point where they aren't a direct threat) is because we can target them in the air. We can just send cruise missles and bombers there. That doesn't require a lot of manpower
Damian
Point is Q we can't just attack Iran now and call it a jolly day, Russia has stepped in.
Marneyo Juano
QUOTE(gingergenius @ Oct 21 2007, 01:58 AM) [snapback]1370804[/snapback]
QUOTE(ProbleMatiK @ Oct 20 2007, 06:39 PM) [snapback]1370766[/snapback]
Soldiers kidnapped by arabs, missiles shot on Israel's northern cities. by arabs. and Israel's the initiator of the war? Not even funny...
Beside's, the war wasn't against lebanon, it was against the hezbollah, and Lebanese infrastructures weren't hit that bad if at all. All those buildings presented to you by the media (who use local reporters from Lebanon to report on the war) as peaceful structures were mostly launching sites. The reason there were civilians found under the debris is that they were held inside the buildings at gunpoint. Israel was kind enough to warn the citizens of the neighbourhoods that were targeted for bombing. About 24hrs before the bombing on the place, they "bombed" it with thousands of papers warning the civilians about the bombing. So there is no way people would stay in the area unless forced to, and it was proven that they were. 2 or more terrorists stayed inside the buildings that had rocket launchers in the back yards, and didn't let the civilians out. Once the place is bombed, the reporters are all over the place photographing the devastation and civilian victims.
And you believe everything the media feeds you.


@ mek - good post, you have some good points, I agree with most of it.


LMFAO

you are so washed out with propaganda it's funny. Israel is the initiator of the war - Hezbollah didn't fire missiles until Israel invaded. Lebanese infrastructures WERE hit that bad, which is why I saw news pictures of south Beirut, completely reduced to rubble, I saw a video of bombs hitting ambulances, I saw more images of a highway completely destroyed. Don't tell me the whole of South Beirut was a launching site. All Israelis say the same thing, you are all very self righteous; I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you are simply led on by the ridiculous media Israel must have and not just stupid.


And what makes you think I'm the brainwashed one and you're so clever and all?
Fact is that if it was a real war, not only would roads and some big buildings be destroyed, but also the nearest power plants, water lines, electricity lines and food supply routes. The roads (and airport for that matter) were bombed to avoid the import of more rockets and terrorists from Syria aswell as other parts of Lebanon. The reason for so much bombed buildings is that south Beirut was used as a headquarters compound by the Hezbollah. Their operatives, organizators, planners and some pretty important people lived and conferenced there.
And don't think you're the only one with pictures and videos backing you up. I've seen alot of videos taken from the Israeli choppers and jets when they were bombing rocket launching sites in the backyard of civilian buildings, weapon convoys and escaping terrorists. After some time I've seen photos of the roads where the convoys were bombed, except the wrecks of the convoy were completley cleared and what was captured was only the devastated road.
Way to swallow the terrorist propaganda and blame it on someone else.
new major on the block
Well I can see Israel using air strikes to protect itself once there is an announcement from Iran that it has completed its nuke program or enough hard evidence is gathered to show of an eminent threat from Iran. It would probably be followed by an all out attack on Israel by Iran. And through that i could see Iran attacking a US base close by claiming that we, the US, is behind the whole thing. Which then pulls us in to a conflict in which we launch our own air strikes from various airbases as well as from our 12 carrier fleets which will and I mean will annihilate Iran's air force and cripple their navy. any of their remaining ground forces that survived the carpet bombing from the B-52s would probably surrender.

As far as a true military threat, Iran will be a challenge but not a big problem, having said that, any such occupying force that would be sent in would be met with so much anger and fury that it would make Iraq look like a walk in the park. You could expect a lot of violence a insurgent attacks from the Iranian people and many deaths would occur. It is unclear yet if Russia would back Iran in any such conflict. I would venture to say though that china would probably sit this on out. After all its better to watch and wait until your greatest potential adversary is wore out and weaker then rested and ready.
Qdeathstar
QUOTE(Damian @ Oct 21 2007, 02:53 AM) [snapback]1370821[/snapback]
Point is Q we can't just attack Iran now and call it a jolly day, Russia has stepped in.



Whats your point Damian, i never said that we would attack Iran. I said that if we had to defeat Iran to a point where it wasn't a direct threat to us, it could be easily done.


Also, I don't think Russia would be that quick to do anything militarily.
Marneyo Juano
Russia would definetly do something, but not militarilly. It's most likely to stop trading contacts with the US and it's allies and encourage other countries to do the same.

And Israel already launched an air strike on a nuclear object in Syria. It was built in the middle of the desert with help from some experts from north Korea. It was disguised as some building that belongs to the ministry of agriculture and farming, but Israel and America collected some info for about half a year, and had photos and info proving that it was actually an underground nuclear plant.
Too lazy to find a link to it right now but I assume you've already heard of it.

My point being that Israel had done it against Syria a few weeks ago, so if it feels like Iran is becoming a serious threat it wouldn't hesitate to launch another air strike on it's objects. Especially in about 3 years when the Israeli multi-stage rocket defence system is completed.
Austin
Russia can't afford to stop trading with the US.
Bain
QUOTE(Baklava @ Oct 19 2007, 12:46 PM) [snapback]1370579[/snapback]
Actually, Israel is the black sheep of the world community, because they use 'barbaric' WW2 weapons and have no rules of warfare.



+ respect to israel
+ respect to israel
Heartless
QUOTE(Giada De Laurentiis is Hot @ Oct 22 2007, 03:16 PM) [snapback]1371178[/snapback]
QUOTE(Baklava @ Oct 19 2007, 12:46 PM) [snapback]1370579[/snapback]
Actually, Israel is the black sheep of the world community, because they use 'barbaric' WW2 weapons and have no rules of warfare.



+ respect to israel
+ respect to israel


And you can't forget the fact that they use bigger bullets then anyone.
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