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PapaBearDX
I saw the movie SiCKO about a week ago, and regardless of your political affiliation it has some good points, America's health care system blows, and the systems in Canada, U.K, and France seem great, I'd rather pay higher taxes and have free healthcare than our current system. interesting clip of it here http://youtube.com/watch?v=EV4-Wtu-vvI
psychÝ
Indeed, I was also thinking it wasn't bad when I went there a few days ago.
Damian
http://youtube.com/watch?v=n7-EW7SNyLY
Documentary was a waste of time, people think it's a comedy. I swear sometimes I just don't understand how we(Americans) are still alive now. :|
Qdeathstar
The movie is silly, so i guess it is best to look at it as a comedy? No?


What you guys dont understand is that socialized medicine will only worsen the situation. Sure we have low rankings in health care according to the world health organization. That isn't because the quality of our medical care is poor.

The reason that the WHO ranks the United States health care so poor is because in focuses in on how evenly the medical care is distributed, not the quality of it. In america, we do not have socialized medical care, and as a result our rankings suffer. But, if you have the money, and you need something done, the medical care that you recieve is top-notch.

Under socialized medicine, what Sicko is advocating, then the quality of american health care would suffer. It would be mediocre at best. However, it would still receive a higher ranking according the the WHO.


the WHO ranking system is a joke, and it is also a joke that Sicko would use it as an excuse for ranting about the "fairness" of our health system.



Lastly, for all of you who are all for "increasing taxes" to pay for our medical care... their are too huge problems with that.

1. The more you tax people, especially the more you tax the rich, the less jobs there are. This is because rich people don't just hoard their money under their pillow. Instead, rich people are more likely to invest their money in a way that will enable them to become even richer. This means new business ventures, buying and selling of real estate, ect. All of this creates jobs. Every time an investor buys and sells a house, in order to receive a higher return, he fixes it up. That requires higher contractors, who in turn have to higher employees and low-wage laborers to do the work.

Do you really want money that could go towards investment (in the short run leading to decreased unemployment and in the long run increased GDP growth) instead going to an overly inflated government beurocracy in charge of dishing out medical care?

If you do, then that means that rich people will have less money to invest, less money to create new businesses, less money to hire people to work, less tax revenue (due to decreased taxable income (less jobs=less income)), and an increased welfare/unemployment burden on the government.

2. The United States Government is grossly inefficient. Did you know that united states law prohibits the government from bargaining with drug companies for lower perscription drug costs? Bet you didn't. Secondly, when you "hire" the government to take care of medical care, all your really doing is creating another middle man that has to get paid. Its going to cost a lot of money for the government to keep track of this new medicaid system, and you can bet your ass lobbyists from every company in the health-care industry will be there to make sure that the government pays top-dollar for their services.

Then, after its set up, whose going to be in charge over oversight? The government... right. We all know how well it is at making sure everything is done right. There will be practically no oversight, and no one will care. It's different when you, or your private for profit insurance agency is fitting the bill for health care, but when the government pays no one will care if the doctor charges you 600,000 dollars to put your arm in a cast.

Hardcore Ottoman
Qdeath keeping it laissez-faire. You make too much sense some times... so I will safely say that the true reason why our medical sucks based on my value of it are the infinite number of new drugs coming out that squeeze through regulations with room to show and don't do jack shit.

But, if regulations were to be any tighter then the pharmaceutical trade would fail--we need shit. This goes for cars as well... and just about everything else. That is one humongous problem with capitalism, it breeds useless shit and cannot survive without it.
DeKo
call me an idiot, and this is the most socialist thing ive ever said, but surely everybody has the right to some sort of decent medical care? The US system is a joke, you either pay all your life savings, put yourself in debt or dont receive any treatment.
Zacko
QUOTE(DeKo @ Aug 26 2007, 09:52 AM) [snapback]1358387[/snapback]
call me an idiot, and this is the most socialist thing ive ever said, but surely everybody has the right to some sort of decent medical care? The US system is a joke, you either pay all your life savings, put yourself in debt or dont receive any treatment.


It's true. You should watch Sicko, it's pretty interesting. Michael Moore said himself he doesn't care if it's watched on the Internets. (But you ahem shouldn't because that would be warez. Cough cough.)
Qdeathstar
everyone in America gets some basic treatment. All emergency centers are required to stabalize the patient at the very least.

Also, there are over 45 million americans without medical insurance, but who qualify, under existing laws. I can't be responsible for them if they aren't.
gingergenius
QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Aug 25 2007, 08:10 PM) [snapback]1358342[/snapback]
The reason that the WHO ranks the United States health care so poor is because in focuses in on how evenly the medical care is distributed, not the quality of it. In america, we do not have socialized medical care, and as a result our rankings suffer. But, if you have the money, and you need something done, the medical care that you recieve is top-notch.


Obviously, you have to measure things by an average or by how they are distributed. If you have the money??!!! The beauty of socialized healthcare is that everyone gets the same care, no matter how much money thay have. People are physically the same, they all have the same organs in the same places. So why does one body dressed in a suit deserve better healthcare than any other??
psychÝ
QUOTE(gingergenius @ Aug 27 2007, 09:52 AM) [snapback]1358509[/snapback]
QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Aug 25 2007, 08:10 PM) [snapback]1358342[/snapback]
The reason that the WHO ranks the United States health care so poor is because in focuses in on how evenly the medical care is distributed, not the quality of it. In america, we do not have socialized medical care, and as a result our rankings suffer. But, if you have the money, and you need something done, the medical care that you recieve is top-notch.


Obviously, you have to measure things by an average or by how they are distributed. If you have the money??!!! The beauty of socialized healthcare is that everyone gets the same care, no matter how much money thay have. People are physically the same, they all have the same organs in the same places. So why does one body dressed in a suit deserve better healthcare than any other??

Because they have paid for it.

Socialism doesn't work, so there is no point in even mentioning it.
basicked
this is why i'm french and american. i have the best of both things.
Qdeathstar
QUOTE(gingergenius @ Aug 27 2007, 08:52 AM) [snapback]1358509[/snapback]
QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Aug 25 2007, 08:10 PM) [snapback]1358342[/snapback]
The reason that the WHO ranks the United States health care so poor is because in focuses in on how evenly the medical care is distributed, not the quality of it. In america, we do not have socialized medical care, and as a result our rankings suffer. But, if you have the money, and you need something done, the medical care that you recieve is top-notch.


Obviously, you have to measure things by an average or by how they are distributed. If you have the money??!!! The beauty of socialized healthcare is that everyone gets the same care, no matter how much money thay have. People are physically the same, they all have the same organs in the same places. So why does one body dressed in a suit deserve better healthcare than any other??



Everyone gets shit? Thats not beautiful at all. Nah, i'd rather pay for my medical care, besides almost anyone can get basic medical care in the united states.
tethered
Its all BS
Uninsured In America
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uKCWbq18bNk
Damian
QUOTE(tethered @ Sep 14 2007, 04:21 PM) [snapback]1362369[/snapback]
Its all BS
Uninsured In America
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uKCWbq18bNk

I was born sick as a baby, deadly sick. Because of some insurance crap I was turned away from hospitals. My mom had to keep going to the hospital asking the doctors to vouch for her that I needed to be in there, all of them agreed that I needed to be there. It's quite fucking sad when a kid is about to die and because something about insurance they're turned away isn't it?

Did you bother to even fully watch the movie and hear about the real life stories in it? People actually got turned away and left to die! One guy in the movie told his insurance company he was going to inform Michael Moore about how shitty his service was, and funnily enough they "randomly" decided to go "ok yea you can use your money to get your daughter surgery" basically...

Most people that hate this movie won't truely understand until they really get fucked up later on in life and they're looking at a bill, also what that lady said in that youtube you posted made me sick. "I don't even think I paid haha", dumb bitch basically just avoiding paying those hard working doctors.
tethered
QUOTE(Damian @ Sep 14 2007, 02:14 PM) [snapback]1362398[/snapback]
QUOTE(tethered @ Sep 14 2007, 04:21 PM) [snapback]1362369[/snapback]
Its all BS
Uninsured In America
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uKCWbq18bNk

I was born sick as a baby, deadly sick. Because of some insurance crap I was turned away from hospitals. My mom had to keep going to the hospital asking the doctors to vouch for her that I needed to be in there, all of them agreed that I needed to be there. It's quite fucking sad when a kid is about to die and because something about insurance they're turned away isn't it?

Did you bother to even fully watch the movie and hear about the real life stories in it? People actually got turned away and left to die! One guy in the movie told his insurance company he was going to inform Michael Moore about how shitty his service was, and funnily enough they "randomly" decided to go "ok yea you can use your money to get your daughter surgery" basically...

Most people that hate this movie won't truely understand until they really get fucked up later on in life and they're looking at a bill, also what that lady said in that youtube you posted made me sick. "I don't even think I paid haha", dumb bitch basically just avoiding paying those hard working doctors.
I smell more BS because it is illegal for them to turn you away if you truly need help unless you were born before 1886 when the law was made

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insur...RoomRights.aspx
When you're injured and in the emergency room, the last thing you want to have to do is fight for treatment. Fortunately, a federal law passed in 1986 to prohibit a practice commonly known as "patient dumping" gives you the right to emergency care regardless of your ability to pay. The federal law applies to hospitals that participate in Medicare -- and that includes most hospitals in the United States. However, the patient-dumping law does not give you carte blanche.
Damian
QUOTE(tethered @ Sep 14 2007, 08:55 PM) [snapback]1362412[/snapback]
QUOTE(Damian @ Sep 14 2007, 02:14 PM) [snapback]1362398[/snapback]
QUOTE(tethered @ Sep 14 2007, 04:21 PM) [snapback]1362369[/snapback]
Its all BS
Uninsured In America
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uKCWbq18bNk

I was born sick as a baby, deadly sick. Because of some insurance crap I was turned away from hospitals. My mom had to keep going to the hospital asking the doctors to vouch for her that I needed to be in there, all of them agreed that I needed to be there. It's quite fucking sad when a kid is about to die and because something about insurance they're turned away isn't it?

Did you bother to even fully watch the movie and hear about the real life stories in it? People actually got turned away and left to die! One guy in the movie told his insurance company he was going to inform Michael Moore about how shitty his service was, and funnily enough they "randomly" decided to go "ok yea you can use your money to get your daughter surgery" basically...

Most people that hate this movie won't truely understand until they really get fucked up later on in life and they're looking at a bill, also what that lady said in that youtube you posted made me sick. "I don't even think I paid haha", dumb bitch basically just avoiding paying those hard working doctors.
I smell more BS because it is illegal for them to turn you away if you truly need help unless you were born before 1886 when the law was made

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insur...RoomRights.aspx
When you're injured and in the emergency room, the last thing you want to have to do is fight for treatment. Fortunately, a federal law passed in 1986 to prohibit a practice commonly known as "patient dumping" gives you the right to emergency care regardless of your ability to pay. The federal law applies to hospitals that participate in Medicare -- and that includes most hospitals in the United States. However, the patient-dumping law does not give you carte blanche.

Are you meaning to tell me that all the stories in the movie and that I'm a liar only for you to feel right? Watch the movie fully next time and stop believing that everyone has it equal in this world before declaring it bullshit next time and looking for an argument or you will just basically be another Colbert. When you're immediately about to die they're not going to say "go away" but if you're dying(as in months) they will.
tethered
QUOTE(Damian @ Sep 14 2007, 05:49 PM) [snapback]1362425[/snapback]
QUOTE(tethered @ Sep 14 2007, 08:55 PM) [snapback]1362412[/snapback]
QUOTE(Damian @ Sep 14 2007, 02:14 PM) [snapback]1362398[/snapback]
QUOTE(tethered @ Sep 14 2007, 04:21 PM) [snapback]1362369[/snapback]
Its all BS
Uninsured In America
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uKCWbq18bNk

I was born sick as a baby, deadly sick. Because of some insurance crap I was turned away from hospitals. My mom had to keep going to the hospital asking the doctors to vouch for her that I needed to be in there, all of them agreed that I needed to be there. It's quite fucking sad when a kid is about to die and because something about insurance they're turned away isn't it?

Did you bother to even fully watch the movie and hear about the real life stories in it? People actually got turned away and left to die! One guy in the movie told his insurance company he was going to inform Michael Moore about how shitty his service was, and funnily enough they "randomly" decided to go "ok yea you can use your money to get your daughter surgery" basically...

Most people that hate this movie won't truely understand until they really get fucked up later on in life and they're looking at a bill, also what that lady said in that youtube you posted made me sick. "I don't even think I paid haha", dumb bitch basically just avoiding paying those hard working doctors.
I smell more BS because it is illegal for them to turn you away if you truly need help unless you were born before 1886 when the law was made

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insur...RoomRights.aspx
When you're injured and in the emergency room, the last thing you want to have to do is fight for treatment. Fortunately, a federal law passed in 1986 to prohibit a practice commonly known as "patient dumping" gives you the right to emergency care regardless of your ability to pay. The federal law applies to hospitals that participate in Medicare -- and that includes most hospitals in the United States. However, the patient-dumping law does not give you carte blanche.

Are you meaning to tell me that all the stories in the movie and that I'm a liar only for you to feel right? Watch the movie fully next time and stop believing that everyone has it equal in this world before declaring it bullshit next time and looking for an argument or you will just basically be another Colbert. When you're immediately about to die they're not going to say "go away" but if you're dying(as in months) they will.

I state facts (provided a link even)
Fact: It is illegal for them to not treat you meaning you have to be treated.

You sound like a ultra liberal elitist out of touch with the law (and reality) that will twist the truth to reach your twisted goal.

I pay more that enough in taxes to pay for all these freeloading bastards that are unwilling to pay for their hospital bills. I refuse to pay more!
You stated that those people make you sick, well they make me sick too but by backing Moore and those freaks don't you see that you and I will be paying more in taxes to cover them?

I have a decent job and for every one of those people that feel the government owes them free health care I say get the hell out!
Go to those other countries you love so much and leave us workers alone.

Damn liberals! rolleyes.gif
Damian
QUOTE(tethered @ Sep 15 2007, 07:52 AM) [snapback]1362517[/snapback]
QUOTE(Damian @ Sep 14 2007, 05:49 PM) [snapback]1362425[/snapback]
QUOTE(tethered @ Sep 14 2007, 08:55 PM) [snapback]1362412[/snapback]
QUOTE(Damian @ Sep 14 2007, 02:14 PM) [snapback]1362398[/snapback]
QUOTE(tethered @ Sep 14 2007, 04:21 PM) [snapback]1362369[/snapback]
Its all BS
Uninsured In America
http://youtube.com/watch?v=uKCWbq18bNk

I was born sick as a baby, deadly sick. Because of some insurance crap I was turned away from hospitals. My mom had to keep going to the hospital asking the doctors to vouch for her that I needed to be in there, all of them agreed that I needed to be there. It's quite fucking sad when a kid is about to die and because something about insurance they're turned away isn't it?

Did you bother to even fully watch the movie and hear about the real life stories in it? People actually got turned away and left to die! One guy in the movie told his insurance company he was going to inform Michael Moore about how shitty his service was, and funnily enough they "randomly" decided to go "ok yea you can use your money to get your daughter surgery" basically...

Most people that hate this movie won't truely understand until they really get fucked up later on in life and they're looking at a bill, also what that lady said in that youtube you posted made me sick. "I don't even think I paid haha", dumb bitch basically just avoiding paying those hard working doctors.
I smell more BS because it is illegal for them to turn you away if you truly need help unless you were born before 1886 when the law was made

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insur...RoomRights.aspx
When you're injured and in the emergency room, the last thing you want to have to do is fight for treatment. Fortunately, a federal law passed in 1986 to prohibit a practice commonly known as "patient dumping" gives you the right to emergency care regardless of your ability to pay. The federal law applies to hospitals that participate in Medicare -- and that includes most hospitals in the United States. However, the patient-dumping law does not give you carte blanche.

Are you meaning to tell me that all the stories in the movie and that I'm a liar only for you to feel right? Watch the movie fully next time and stop believing that everyone has it equal in this world before declaring it bullshit next time and looking for an argument or you will just basically be another Colbert. When you're immediately about to die they're not going to say "go away" but if you're dying(as in months) they will.

I state facts (provided a link even)
Fact: It is illegal for them to not treat you meaning you have to be treated.

You might be stating "facts", but I'm stating real life events based off of my own personal experiences and others.
QUOTE
You sound like a ultra liberal elitist out of touch with the law (and reality) that will twist the truth to reach your twisted goal.
By stating real life events? Wow, get off your high horse and listen why don't you instead of denying it to only make you feel right...
QUOTE
I pay more that enough in taxes to pay for all these freeloading bastards that are unwilling to pay for their hospital bills. I refuse to pay more!
You stated that those people make you sick, well they make me sick too but by backing Moore and those freaks don't you see that you and I will be paying more in taxes to cover them?
Yea you'd rather the federal gov't send us to another recession printing out more and more money for stupid things that don't work(war, no child left behind etc etc) rather than giving it to people than people that could use it? I'm not saying let's just go totally free because then things would be crazy but I'm saying lets make it more reasonable rather more than money issues. If you bothered to watch the movie you'd see a family that had well enough money for an operation and a donner for it but because their insurance company refused to give them their own money they pay to them monthly the man was just left to die....Yea that might be a world you want to live in but that sounds scary to me.
This is reality, this is America. Home of the thieves..
QUOTE
I have a decent job and for every one of those people that feel the government owes them free health care I say get the hell out!
Go to those other countries you love so much and leave us workers alone.
They deserve to be treated like human beings and not anything lower. You may think you live in an ideal America but you will one day see how fucked up this country truly is.
Amis
Universal Health Care system works, just look at Canada or Nordic countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care

Yes I have been sick too, and have used the universal services, they are reliable and free of charge, if the healt care system works, the country works. And no, I'm not a commie or otherwise leftist or anything, it is just equality.

And the quality by the way, isn't shit. If it was shit, I would be dead already.
Damian
The government are saying our Universal Healthcare will be shitty, not anyone's else. Do you see how teachers are treated here? It's a joke to do such jobs under the government.
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