QUOTE(Baldman_Sonetti @ May 24 2006, 06:59 PM) [snapback]1159365[/snapback]
What I wish to discuss is whether or not the father, regardless of age, should have the right to be consulted before the abortion.
Nope. It's living as a parasite within the female and so the male should have absolutely no say. It would be like having the female need to consult with the male in order to get a tapeworm removed to ringworm treated. Requiring it merely decreases the time the two individuals involved have before an abortion can no longer be performed. Also, the longer one waits the more dangerous it becomes.
I wish to make perfectly clear that I do not in any way advocate that a father should have more say than the mother in deciding the future of an unborn child. Rather what I think is important is that in involving the father, the couple can properly discuss the implications of aborting the foetus, and the alternatives available to them.
While the emotions may be flowing and confusion may take place, one might still be well aware of the possibilities and potential repurcussions for them. I think ones doctor is the best person to discuss the implications with. Most people are ignorant on many topics yet doctors frequently read studies, journals, etc. in their field.
I feel these conversations should take place under the supervision of a social worker or medical professional, primarily in order to ensure that the mother is not being coerced and secondarily to assess the mental impact on both parties and what stress it might place on their relationship, so that they can be fast-tracked into any appropriate counselling (or as the case may unfortunately sometimes be, protection) following the procedure.
What if they already know of the implications, will you force them to sit there for 10 minutes like kids being punished?
The good thing about this is that it has the chance where it may discover any abuse in relationships. As for stress, it's a safe bet that any couple which know about it will feel some kind of stress. I would actually say more feel a great amount of stress as opposed to none.
I believe there are several advantages to a programme such as this. Firstly, the discussions between the potential parents may prevent the abortion altogther, and as a popular alternative adoption can provide babies for infertile couples, rather than expensive IVF treatment.
Preventing the abortion isn't necessarily an advantage. Definately not to the couple in question financially.
People go through IVF because they want to, not just because they don't want to go through the adoption process. There is an emotional connection with being pregnant with a child and then giving birth to it. Mothers generally feel a greater attachment to it then if they simply adopted one. It's all psychological. If someone is willing and able to pay for the treatment then I don't really care.
Secondly, forcing the couple to talk about the implications of having a baby may promote a more stable relationship and limit promiscuity, as couples are faced with the hard reality of having to accept the actions of their consequences together.
The country is pretty divided on the issue and while one would expect couples to be communicating, especially on such topics as this one may actually be splitting them up or causing resentment. Not all couples best work with having to deal with every issue together. This isn't an ideal world where everyone has someone who perfectly is matched to them. It's best to let couples deal with things as they best do. If it's respecting each others ability to make decisions then why mess with that if it's what works? Shit, if I ever get into cohabitating with a female significant other and she gets pregnant, I may prefer an abortion but I would likely support her regardless of the decision made simply because I don't go for the no brains type so why would you want to waste our time, especially when we could be off doing more important things?
Before trying to get relationships to be stable you may want to target why people go for those they do. You might find a much higher success rate in dealing with the way in which society gets people to look for significant others. Have people actually want to learn about each others political and philosophical views. This will do far more in finding if one is compatible with another and so likely lead to more stable relationships. The problem today is that such topics are a virtual taboo so much knowledge is lacking for a while after they started seeing each other.
Screw what your favorite color is, tell me what you think of the Allegory of the Cave.
Thirdly, it provides a means through which to identify cases of abuse, whether sexual, psychological or otherwise, through the monitored meetings and discussions, which might otherwise go unnoticed.
It isn't enough that you observe potential cases of abuse. The victim must be willing to follow through on the charges otherwise you've got squat.
Fourthly, it can alleviate or eliminate stress brought upon the potential mother who would have otherwise tried to keep the abortion a secret from their partner.
I don't know, there must be a reason why the potential mother would want to keep it a secret and by forcing her to bring it out wouldn't you just be making it worse for them?
If not above these, then at least as important as these is that a father should know if his child has been aborted.
Why is it important that the potential father should know? So that they become depressed and possibly resent the potential mother? What's done is done.
For want of a far better comparison, it is similar to kidnapping. "What he doesn't know won't hurt him" is not a responsible line to take in matters of familial stability and this should no longer be an option, unless in special circumstances such as a relationship with an abusive partner.
I certainly see it as being a responsible line to take in matters of familial stability as forcing one to tell another could destabilize the circumstances surrounding the relationship and the last thing we need is more broken homes. What we should do is be refering those who get abortions and have babies to psychologists as studies find that both have heightened rates of depression from the rest of the population. Get their issues dealt with and maybe some won't feel the need to abort any more babies, if that's your concern.
Regardless, because women can get an abortion without their partners consent men should not be forced to pay child support if they agreed that they didn't want kids or it was a one night stand.
QUOTE(Nec @ May 25 2006, 01:01 PM) [snapback]1159682[/snapback]
Well, speaking as a mother (which I am), I absolutely agree that both should have equal say on the issue. While it is we women who actually carry/give birth/etc., it doesn't change the fact that the child is equally the father and mother's.
Fewer genes on the Y chromosome and women carrying the child has me say that whether it's both of theirs equally depends on the gender of the child. Furthermore if the father wants the child then he can have it.....after the abortion just like after the birth. Equality in gender tissue means diddly squat to me unless as I've said before it can be taken out of one female and put in another, consenting, female or let it survive on machines. Right now machines are an option into the early 3rd trimester. The female should pay for the cost up to what the abortion would have costed her but after that it's on the hands of the male, or other person(s) that are going to take care of the child, or society as a whole if the child will be put into an orphanage.
But the bottom line is, if you play you pay. And if you happen to be the woman who doesn't want a baby and the father does - tough shit...you shouldn't have had sex in the first place. That is a responsibility that you must be willing to take on, even if you use birth control.
They deal with the pregnancy, they are responsible in that they deal with the pregnancy through abortion or birth. It doesn't matter. Only through inaction or a lack of thought on a given topic can one be irresponsible and in this case the only person who can be irresponsible is one who gives birth. That isn't to say that those who give birth are irresponsible but that to give birth is something that results from inaction. Abortion requires thought and action so it in no way is irresponsible.
People may say it is irresponsible because it isn't in line with their views but the idea they use there isn't the common, dictionary, definition of the word or idea behind it but that's the symbol they use for immoral which is a totally different thing.