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DuPz0r
More questions answered, more evidence.
Video link:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8...+change&pl=true

What is your view of the US government, after watching this?
psych
My view hasn't changed very much, there lieing corrupt bastards as they always were and always will be.
GFX.Absinthe
My fucking god.... that brought me to tears.... this nation is entirely... fucked..the fuck up...
I wish someone would kill bush and every person fucker in american goverment...
So osama is just in a hospital.......
Sorry for so much cursing smile.gif
DuPz0r
Nah, i think he was saying that Osama was in an american hosptial just before 911 or something.
GFX.Absinthe
So that even though he couldn't of have anything to do with 9/ 11 cause he was in the hospital and he had american agents there also keeping him from going anywhere o,o
WITH TEETH
All fucked up. Not surprising really, but quite informative.

Also, there's a few odd coincidences involving the number 7 for some reason. Flight 77, World Trade Center 7, Fire Engine 7.. I dunno if there's more, as I've still got 20 minutes left on this video. (listening on another tab as I type this)

I wish I would have seen this before instead of watching the dodgy Fahrenheit 911 movie. I'll say F911 did bring into light many of the reasons Bush shouldn't have EVER been president, but it just didn't touch base on the actual attack (or deception) like this.
OptimumPx
QUOTE(WITH TEETH @ Apr 13 2006, 01:35 PM) [snapback]1132843[/snapback]

All fucked up. Not surprising really, but quite informative.

Also, there's a few odd coincidences involving the number 7 for some reason. Flight 77, World Trade Center 7, Fire Engine 7.. I dunno if there's more, as I've still got 20 minutes left on this video. (listening on another tab as I type this)

Speaking as someone who can't watch the video (bad video card and dial-up) I will say this about the #7 thing.

The #7 has no real meaning waht-so-ever. Flight 77 hit the Pentagon (which only has 5 sides), and was one of 4 planes that day, the other three were Flights 11, 175, & 93. Out of all that only 2 sevens. sleep.gif

The World Trade Center complex has 7 buildings, this is true. However planes only hit 2 of the buildings, and only 4 were destroyed on 9/11...the other 3 (WTC-4, WTC-5, & WTC-6) were later demolished.

I don't get why Fire Engine 7 would be important in any way. Mainly because they also lost Fire Engines 1, 4, 6, 10, 15, 21, 28, 34, 55, 65, 76, 202, 204, 210...for a grand total of 15. Also notice that out of all of these only 2 have the number 7 in them.

As Snopes.com says: "It is but human nature to search for patterns even where none exist. We attempt to impose a gestalt on randomness because chaos is difficult to comprehend, hence our fascination with recurrent themes. We feel something of great import is going on if a particular number comes up time and again, and we are unsettled by
it.

And yet, it's all randomness. That is not to say that at times any number plucked from the air will not appear more often than is the norm because such clumpings are only an expected part of the process of random distribution. Even though a flipped coin comes up heads five hundred times out of a thousand, it does not follow that each 'head' occurrence is immediately followed by a 'tails' inevitably during a run of a thousand trials, there will be moments wherein the 'tails' tally varies significantly from the 'heads' count. Clumping can and does occur, and random numbers seemingly appear more often at various moments in time. Over the long run, of course, everything evens out. But at the moment when 13 comes up four times in a row on a roulette wheel, or 11 seems to jump off the page at one, it all seems so very eerie."


QUOTE(Wikipedia.com)
Loose Change has been criticized as disinformation even within the 9/11 Truth Movement, which disagrees with many aspects of the official version of events on 9/11/01. A primary concern of many in the movement is the promotion by documentaries such as Loose Change and In Plane Site, that a commercial jet did not hit the Pentagon.

Critics of the documentary's proposal that a cruise missile or a small aircraft may have been the cause of damage to the Pentagon, cite the nearly 100 documented accounts from witnesses on the scene who reported seeing a large airliner. Some witnesses specifically noted seeing a 757, while only two witnesses, located some distance from the scene, reported seeing a small plane. Loose Change, however, implies that an equal number of witnesses reported different aircraft as reported a commercial jet, and does not mention the large body of witness reports in support of a commercial jet. Critics of the missile theory note that not a single witness at the scene has ever reported seeing a missile. Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport is located just one mile beyond the Pentagon in the direction the large aircraft was travelling. In Plain View suggests that the large aircraft continued on past the Pentagon and a smaller aircraft struck the building.

In response to the film's suggestion that Flight 93 landed in Cleveland, instead of crashing or being shot down in Pennsylvania, and that passengers were subsequently secretly evacuated to an empty NASA research center, critics in the 9/11 Truth Movement contend that there is virtually no evidence to support that claim and that many witnesses at the time reported seeing and hearing the plane at the crash site.

Wikipedia was used as a source for some information from the documentary. Critics argue that since Wikipedia can be publicly and anonymously edited, the producers of the documentary could have edited articles to suit their own purposes. None of the Wikipedia-based information has yet been verified as correct or incorrect.


Also, this review of the video: "Loose Change" An analysis
WITH TEETH
It's all coincidental, really. But I like to find patterns, as the quote says about my nature of being human. I just put Fire Engine 7 there, not because it was lost like many others, but because the firemen who operated that unit were interviewed and had some interesting things to say about the second blast.. Something they might not have said, had the FBI gotten to them before the interviewer. They would have changed their story and concluded that the fire was what collapsed the building and might have also said something along the lines of "we're firefighters, we know this stuff".. You know, typical American government fare.
Bain
So OP, It is but human nature to search for patterns even where none exist?

Kind of like racism? How about the holocaust?

Or are you going back on your logic?
OptimumPx
QUOTE(Militant Bain @ Apr 14 2006, 03:09 AM) [snapback]1133176[/snapback]

So OP, It is but human nature to search for patterns even where none exist?

Kind of like racism? How about the holocaust?

Or are you going back on your logic?

Huh? What does that have anything to do with this topic?

Snopes.com was talking about number patterns, for example the 7s that WITH TEETH was talkng about...

Humans like patterns... sleep.gif
Obama
lol one time my dad was having a barbecue and some guy he invited broght this on dvd and showed me and was like did you know that osama bin ladein is crhristian i was like "wtf you been smokin crack!"
Samurai_tbag
How mcuh extra footage is ther in this one since the first?
Bain
QUOTE(OptimumPx @ Apr 14 2006, 11:32 AM) [snapback]1133403[/snapback]

QUOTE(Militant Bain @ Apr 14 2006, 03:09 AM) [snapback]1133176[/snapback]

So OP, It is but human nature to search for patterns even where none exist?

Kind of like racism? How about the holocaust?

Or are you going back on your logic?

Huh? What does that have anything to do with this topic?

Snopes.com was talking about number patterns, for example the 7s that WITH TEETH was talkng about...

Humans like patterns... sleep.gif



Nevermind, forget it....you missed the point entirely.
NTC187
While the stuff OP pointed out is correct, there is still too much out weighing that stuff to say that it was infact a Terrorist Attack. Such as how does a 747 fit into a 16ft gap at the Pentagon and leave no debris behind what so ever? Why were they never able to release video footage of the "plane" hitting the Pentagon, when there are about 6 cameras on the side the crash happened, except for a 5 frame still shot which shows an explosion, but no plane.

And the video they showed of "Osama" saying he was responsible for the attacks, the guy looks nothing like Osama at all, and the guy is wearing a gold ring, which is frowned upon in the muslim religion, plus the FBI said Osama is right handed, but in the video he is writing a message with his left hand.

I still highly believe 9/11 was a government set up.
P-nut
Wow, that video shed a new light on some things.

I never read anything about other explosions in the towers (propably because I was never really a 911 conspiracy theorist), yet the statements and other little facts this movie offers make it pretty obvious the towers were brought down by explosives of some kind, not the planes itself. Interesting also is the fact several highly unusual safety drills were executed in the weeks prior to the attacks (or what might have not been 'attacks' after all), during which dogs trained to sniff out explosives were removed from the site. More amazing even was that George W.'s brother had a hand in this.

I don't really know what to think of the Pentagon theories. Why don't they give out the tapes of the cameras that recorded the crash? Where is the rubble, and why the hell is there only such a small hole in the wall?

Some things just don't add up. This movie totally changed my views on what happened that day. I never knew Osama denied he was behind the attacks, and that the video shown in this documentry was the only 'proof' he was the mastermind (I think it's pretty obvious the man in that video is NOT Osama Bin Laden. The facial structure of the man in the video is nothing like the one of Bin Laden, only the beard and clothing suggest it is him).

This documentry raised many questions. I'm going on a little investigation of my own to prove some of the 'facts' shown to us in this video, because I really want to know what did and what didn't happen.
WITH TEETH
What makes stuff like this more believable to me is the fact that the US government is capable of fabricating the most extravagant lies and hoaxes, although they are most often questionable... Yet there are a few observant people who can see through it and logically explain their observations with pretty solid proof to back it up.

Wether any of this is true or not, it just makes more sense than anything the government has tried to pass off as the truth. And hiding ANY materials that could answer a lot of brewing suspicions isn't making the gov't look any better.
DAMIAN91
It's sad these videos will do absolutely nothing to stop it sleep.gif Just makes me hate the gov't so much more
DuPz0r
Well if enough people see it worldwide, all the rest of the world can team up and over throw the US government xD (*wishes this was true*)

Someone needs to stand up to them http://niggastole911.ytmnd.com/ xD
Achilles
Why does everybody let this one video completely rearrange their beliefs related to the attacks of 9/11 before so much as double checking the information?

This huge disingenuous coverup- which would have to have began around 5 years ago- extends from the Bush Administration to Congress to the media and has been upheld from the general American public to date?

A lot of that video is speculation or they'll throw something at you like "blahblah reportedly happened." That doesn't constitute a fact. And how do we know the creator, who btw sounds like hes about 15, isnt some hack trying to push some bullshit agenda or sell conspiracy t-shirts or some shit?

I guess I'd have to abstain; I'd like to hear from some of the more politically inclined members of these forums on the subject.

DAMIAN91
QUOTE(DuPzr @ Apr 16 2006, 10:01 AM) [snapback]1134951[/snapback]

Well if enough people see it worldwide, all the rest of the world can team up and over throw the US government xD (*wishes this was true*)

Oh come on -_-. The gov't said what they had to say a long time ago and will never acknowledge the event again because they know if they do theyre in some serious shit because we all know that the prrof in these 9/11 videos is just too much for them to counter attack with lies. So basically theyre just going to continue to ignore all the videos and etc....thats America for you :(
OptimumPx
QUOTE(DAMIAN91 @ Apr 16 2006, 09:09 PM) [snapback]1135222[/snapback]

QUOTE(DuPzr™ @ Apr 16 2006, 10:01 AM) [snapback]1134951[/snapback]

Well if enough people see it worldwide, all the rest of the world can team up and over throw the US government xD (*wishes this was true*)

Oh come on sleep.gif. The gov't said what they had to say a long time ago and will never acknowledge the event again because they know if they do theyre in some serious shit because we all know that the prrof in these 9/11 videos is just too much for them to counter attack with lies. So basically theyre just going to continue to ignore all the videos and etc....thats America for you sad.gif
That video is disinformation at best. It inisists on the 'missle hit the Pentagon' theory, completly ignoring the over 100 documented accounts from witnesses on the scene saying that they saw an airplane hit the building. Only two people claim to have seen anything different, and they thought it was a smaller airplane and they were far away from the Pentagon at the time! dry.gif

READ THIS REVIEW OF THE MOVIE. It shows what a load of crock it is, and that review is coming from a guy who thinks that 9/11 was a conspiracy anyway.

Don't take this video at face value. >_<
P-nut
QUOTE(Achilles @ Apr 16 2006, 11:38 PM) [snapback]1135180[/snapback]

Why does everybody let this one video completely rearrange their beliefs related to the attacks of 9/11 before so much as double checking the information?

This video completely rearranged my beliefs related to 9/11, yes. I used to think there wasn't, couldn't be a conspiracy behind 9/11. This video made me sceptic, not a conspiracy theorist. I'm doing a little investigation of my own, to sort the facts from the speculation. I have already read some articles about this documentry, from authors with different poltical backgrounds, and indeed a couple of arguments have been squashed, even by people who believe in a conspiracy themselves.

QUOTE(Achilles @ Apr 16 2006, 11:38 PM) [snapback]1135180[/snapback]

This huge disingenuous coverup- which would have to have began around 5 years ago- extends from the Bush Administration to Congress to the media and has been upheld from the general American public to date?

Yep, thats indeed what makes a conspiracy hard to believe. If it was a set-up, hundreds, maybe thousands of people would have been involved. Even without knowing the exact story some should be able to add 1+1. Either there are more rotten apples in the basket then I am willing to believe or these people are being theathened. Or, of course, it's all a load of bs.

QUOTE(Achilles @ Apr 16 2006, 11:38 PM) [snapback]1135180[/snapback]

A lot of that video is speculation or they'll throw something at you like "blahblah reportedly happened." That doesn't constitute a fact. And how do we know the creator, who btw sounds like hes about 15, isnt some hack trying to push some bullshit agenda or sell conspiracy t-shirts or some shit?

I do not trust someone more, or consider his statements to be more honest or trustworthy just because his voice doesn't sound like a 15 year old. Indeed, the guy who narrated the video is a bad choice, but it doesn't matter. Fact is I distrust the American government more then I distrust a total stranger.
Bain
All I have to say is I really hope it was just some towel heads with box cutters who killed a shit load of Americans and got later what was coming to them.

But I doubt it is really that simple.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
Got what was coming to them? They were (supposedly) suicide bombers, I think they knew what was happening.
I Made Your Mom In GMod
I saw that video quite a while ago. It has become one of the reasons that userbar is in my signiture. I fully believe it because I know exactly what Bush is capable of. The Pentagon missile thing does look a bit shady, but I wouldn't be suprised in the least if this guy's theories were correct. It would give Bush the perfect excuse to invade Iraq to eliminate the terrorists and secure oil for his hungry nation, and gain some political plus points at the same time. Whilst in the middle of this, Tony Bliar (that isn't a typo) gets tagged along into the whole mess just because he's such a stupid little sissy wanker he doesn't have a definition of the word no in his tiny little head. sleep.gif


Edit: Please don't reply Bain. You're too good at arguing and I can't be arsed. You wouldn't sway my opinion even if you did win the argument.
Mattay
I just watched the video.

I personally have enough evidence myself to believe that the Bush Administration IS responsible in multiple ways of the events that occured on September 11, 2001. The cell phone calls were interesting: with the voice technology: "Who are these guys?" ...... ........ ......."Don't you believe me?" ........ ........ ........ .... "Who are these guys?" ...... ...... ..... ...... ....... "Don't you believe me?" The technology cloning his voice to make an automated message seems very logical in this matter.

ALSO, what about the explosions? As mentioned in the video, ten thousand gallons of jet fuel CAN'T take down a structure like that. The DEMOLITIONS played quite a role in the consipracy.

What really facinates me are the things that happened at the Pentagon. A C-130? A Helicopter? No engines? No marks from the wings, stabilizer's, or the engines. A tomohawk cruise missile? The light posts were almost perfect, plopped out of the ground if you will. I wish I could have seen it on that day.

What about the woman in the hospital? (April)? Take the money and shut up from the mysterious men in suits. Tight top secret investigating, or conspiracy? NO conspiracy is perfect; there is always someone outside that knows, and we have plenty here to show it.

I agree with Jimmy Walter. He believes this is a conspiracy as I. That 9/11 was a SELF INFLICTED WOUND ON THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. Anyway, if it was either a real act of enemy terrorism, or an actual planned attack, we will never know the truth.
Qdeathstar
I think that anyone who believes that america did this, is an idiot.

1. They reason Loose Change says that fire cant knock the building down, is because its only looking at the melting point, not the warping point. THe steel wouldnt have to melt to loose its strenth and fall over.

2. Theres no payout for america to want to knock them down

3. Al Queda was prepared for it. 1 day after 9/11, Bin Laden had a tape out of claiming responsibility (THAT WAS SENT TO ALJEZZERA)

4. The United States couldnt of build it off. IT would require that people "sacrifice themselves" for a cause that was greater than themselves. That certainly isnt oil, so what would it be then? That they decided to fly themselves into a building. Well, its quite clear that the promise of heaven is the only thing that could do that. IE Muslim Extreamist.

5. Anyone who belives america knocked down the Twin towers is a fucking idiot.

As for you Pilot Lazz. Please. You have that "I Hate america" sig in your spit there because you want to be "cool" and "counter-culture" so STFU, seriously. If that wasnt hte case you wouldnt be OMG I WATCHED A VIDEO ON THE INTERNET WRITTEN BY A GUY WHO WAS 19 ABOUT 911 IT BRAINWASHED ME, and convinced me to hate america. Seriously, thats pathetic.


P-nut
QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Apr 19 2006, 04:51 AM) [snapback]1136751[/snapback]

I think that anyone who believes that america did this, is an idiot.

1. They reason Loose Change says that fire cant knock the building down, is because its only looking at the melting point, not the warping point. THe steel wouldnt have to melt to loose its strenth and fall over.

I really don't know enough about steel to agree or disagree with that (dont even know what the hell a warping point is, probably because my lack of 'scientific english'). What I do know is ALOT of people stated they heard multiple explosions, so what about that?
Plus the fact other skyscrappers that were on fire (some even for 24 hours) did not collapse. Pretty strange in my book.

QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Apr 19 2006, 04:51 AM) [snapback]1136751[/snapback]

2. Theres no payout for america to want to knock them down

Not for america, but for it's leaders, namely POWER. Power through fear. After 9/11, they had the power to do whatever they wanted over the backs of scared civilians

QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Apr 19 2006, 04:51 AM) [snapback]1136751[/snapback]

3. Al Queda was prepared for it. 1 day after 9/11, Bin Laden had a tape out of claiming responsibility (THAT WAS SENT TO ALJEZZERA)

Could you post a link to that video because I really want to see that

QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Apr 19 2006, 04:51 AM) [snapback]1136751[/snapback]

4. The United States couldnt of build it off. IT would require that people "sacrifice themselves" for a cause that was greater than themselves. That certainly isnt oil, so what would it be then? That they decided to fly themselves into a building. Well, its quite clear that the promise of heaven is the only thing that could do that. IE Muslim Extreamist.

People can be led to believe they do something for a greater cause while they're just puppets of people who have a different scheme. American intelligence agencies have the skill to do this.


QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Apr 19 2006, 04:51 AM) [snapback]1136751[/snapback]

5. Anyone who belives america knocked down the Twin towers is a fucking idiot.

Untill the day someone gives me indisputable evedence that I wasn't them, I disagree. Are people fucking idiots for not believing a government in everything they say, or even distrusting a government? No, people who base their opinions on statements of a government are fucking idiots.
clowns789
QUOTE(P-nut @ Apr 19 2006, 03:56 AM) [snapback]1136786[/snapback]

Plus the fact other skyscrappers that were on fire (some even for 24 hours) did not collapse. Pretty strange in my book.


They weren't struck with jets at 300 MPH. There is impact and not just explosion and burning, which the other buildings only had the latter.
Bain
QUOTE('Pilot Lazz @ Apr 18 2006, 06:11 PM) [snapback]1136556[/snapback]

I saw that video quite a while ago. It has become one of the reasons that userbar is in my signiture. I fully believe it because I know exactly what Bush is capable of. The Pentagon missile thing does look a bit shady, but I wouldn't be suprised in the least if this guy's theories were correct. It would give Bush the perfect excuse to invade Iraq to eliminate the terrorists and secure oil for his hungry nation, and gain some political plus points at the same time. Whilst in the middle of this, Tony Bliar (that isn't a typo) gets tagged along into the whole mess just because he's such a stupid little sissy wanker he doesn't have a definition of the word no in his tiny little head. sleep.gif


Edit: Please don't reply Bain. You're too good at arguing and I can't be arsed. You wouldn't sway my opinion even if you did win the argument.


Well I agree completely with what you said but your sig still is stupid because you're throwing in the American people, the land, and the government all in one bunch when obviously the first two have many differences with the 3rd.


As for QD:

QUOTE
I think that anyone who believes that america did this, is an idiot.

1. They reason Loose Change says that fire cant knock the building down, is because its only looking at the melting point, not the warping point. THe steel wouldnt have to melt to loose its strenth and fall over.


Melting is where it starts to warp, no?

QUOTE
2. Theres no payout for america to want to knock them down


But there is for specific people and many in the administration.

QUOTE
3. Al Queda was prepared for it. 1 day after 9/11, Bin Laden had a tape out of claiming responsibility (THAT WAS SENT TO ALJEZZERA)


That totally proves you're right!!!

QUOTE
4. The United States couldnt of build it off. IT would require that people "sacrifice themselves" for a cause that was greater than themselves. That certainly isnt oil, so what would it be then? That they decided to fly themselves into a building. Well, its quite clear that the promise of heaven is the only thing that could do that. IE Muslim Extreamist.


What people? They could just sacrifice people, and not make them do it themselves.

QUOTE
5. Anyone who belives america knocked down the Twin towers is a fucking idiot.


Not America, but people within?
Whatever. scooter.gif
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
America is a nonentity, so when people say they hate America it can be assumed that they mean the government and foreign policy...either that or they're just posing.
Qdeathstar
QUOTE

As for QD:

QUOTE
I think that anyone who believes that america did this, is an idiot.

1. They reason Loose Change says that fire cant knock the building down, is because its only looking at the melting point, not the warping point. THe steel wouldnt have to melt to loose its strenth and fall over.


Melting is where it starts to warp, no?


No, its not the same. the melting point they mentioned is the tempature it takes for metal to melt, and turn into ore. A much lower tempature will turn it red, allowing it to become malliable.

QUOTE

QUOTE
2. Theres no payout for america to want to knock them down


But there is for specific people and many in the administration.


List?

QUOTE

QUOTE
3. Al Queda was prepared for it. 1 day after 9/11, Bin Laden had a tape out of claiming responsibility (THAT WAS SENT TO ALJEZZERA)


That totally proves you're right!!!


No, all the other things I listed do, thats just a sub supporting argument


QUOTE

QUOTE
4. The United States couldnt of build it off. IT would require that people "sacrifice themselves" for a cause that was greater than themselves. That certainly isnt oil, so what would it be then? That they decided to fly themselves into a building. Well, its quite clear that the promise of heaven is the only thing that could do that. IE Muslim Extreamist.


What people? They could just sacrifice people, and not make them do it themselves.


How exactly would that work?

QUOTE

QUOTE
5. Anyone who belives america knocked down the Twin towers is a fucking idiot.


Not America, but people within?
Whatever. scooter.gif


Who ever believes america knocked down the twin towers is a fucking idiot.

QUOTE(mello_yello @ Apr 20 2006, 04:49 PM) [snapback]1137854[/snapback]

America is a nonentity, so when people say they hate America it can be assumed that they mean the government and foreign policy...either that or they're just posing.



Obviously.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
A lot of people go off on the nuances that the word "America" brings up in an attempt to dodge the argument Q dry.gif
Bain
Ok Qd.

1- Ok

2- I won't go into the research process because I don't have time but Halliburton and other companies, some military some civilian, certain people with investments and interests involving the middle east/American business/the world trade center, etc

3- A pretty shitty one.

4- By not telling them about the plot but forcing them violently, once they are in a particular situation, to comply.
I mean, no offense, but just because you or I don't understand the specifics doesnt mean the most powerful government on the planet couldnt pull it off.

5- America..........sure whatever.........
But there are differences between saying America, its governments, its people, etc MELLO.
Qdeathstar
QUOTE(P-nut @ Apr 19 2006, 04:56 AM) [snapback]1136786[/snapback]

QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Apr 19 2006, 04:51 AM) [snapback]1136751[/snapback]

I think that anyone who believes that america did this, is an idiot.

1. They reason Loose Change says that fire cant knock the building down, is because its only looking at the melting point, not the warping point. THe steel wouldnt have to melt to loose its strenth and fall over.

I really don't know enough about steel to agree or disagree with that (dont even know what the hell a warping point is, probably because my lack of 'scientific english'). What I do know is ALOT of people stated they heard multiple explosions, so what about that?
Plus the fact other skyscrappers that were on fire (some even for 24 hours) did not collapse. Pretty strange in my book.


Its funny, you say you know know enough about steel, but then assume that everything in the video about "steel" is correct. Also, Fires burn at different tempatures. A feul with an accellerant such as jet fuel will burn at a much higher tempature that drywall. Also, those fires spread a lot slower. SO, while the twin towers fire was all over the place (where ever the jet fuel landed) the fires in the skyscrapes set by normal means were confined to one spot at a time, and moved much more slowly. (Fire/heat rises) If it stared on the 4th forth floor, by the time it reached the 10th, the fire on the 4th floor would have burned itself out, because of the lack of fuel. (try setting a camp fire, and not attending it, it will go out).

QUOTE

QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Apr 19 2006, 04:51 AM) [snapback]1136751[/snapback]

2. Theres no payout for america to want to knock them down

Not for america, but for it's leaders, namely POWER. Power through fear. After 9/11, they had the power to do whatever they wanted over the backs of scared civilians


American leaders need more power? You do realize that the United States president was the right to start war with who ever he wants for 90 days, without congresses approval, right? In addition, if thats the case, why didnt we frame Saddam hussain, instead of the opiate farmers in Afganistan?

QUOTE

QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Apr 19 2006, 04:51 AM) [snapback]1136751[/snapback]

3. Al Queda was prepared for it. 1 day after 9/11, Bin Laden had a tape out of claiming responsibility (THAT WAS SENT TO ALJEZZERA)

Could you post a link to that video because I really want to see that


Probably not, that doenst mean i dont remember it. It was three years ago, video take bandwith, you do the math.

QUOTE

QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Apr 19 2006, 04:51 AM) [snapback]1136751[/snapback]

4. The United States couldnt of build it off. IT would require that people "sacrifice themselves" for a cause that was greater than themselves. That certainly isnt oil, so what would it be then? That they decided to fly themselves into a building. Well, its quite clear that the promise of heaven is the only thing that could do that. IE Muslim Extreamist.

People can be led to believe they do something for a greater cause while they're just puppets of people who have a different scheme. American intelligence agencies have the skill to do this.



List a cause greater than saving the lives of 3000 people, plus your self, plus seeing your family grow up, ect? Oil isnt it, thats much to trivial, since its already clear that oil cannot be the future of energy, even if we control it all.

QUOTE

QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ Apr 19 2006, 04:51 AM) [snapback]1136751[/snapback]

5. Anyone who belives america knocked down the Twin towers is a fucking idiot.

Untill the day someone gives me indisputable evedence that I wasn't them, I disagree. Are people fucking idiots for not believing a government in everything they say, or even distrusting a government? No, people who base their opinions on statements of a government are fucking idiots.


It has nothing to do with believeing everything the government has to say. The government isnt taking up the issue of whether or not it knocked down the buildings, because YOU'D HAVE TO BE A GODDAMN IDIOT to think that was the case. OH, and btw, what governments say, statments, are very very important, even when its not the truth. Why do you think Iran says "Were testing missiles" or "we are goingto start our nuclear program" Dont be a dumbfuck and think whatevera government says isnt important. That reall is ignorant.

Is it wise to trust the opinion of an idiot who most likely hasnt been in any sort of engineering class, at all, on what the properties of steel are?

QUOTE(Militant Bain @ Apr 20 2006, 05:10 PM) [snapback]1137878[/snapback]



2- I won't go into the research process because I don't have time but Halliburton and other companies, some military some civilian, certain people with investments and interests involving the middle east/American business/the world trade center, etc




Specifics?

QUOTE

3- A pretty shitty one.


Again, its only a supporting Fact, instead of the numerous unsported OPINIONS stated by the author of the video

QUOTE

4- By not telling them about the plot but forcing them violently, once they are in a particular situation, to comply.
I mean, no offense, but just because you or I don't understand the specifics doesnt mean the most powerful government on the planet couldnt pull it off.


Yah, yah, your right. In that way, its like god. Just because you cant understand how God exists, all you really need is faith and a little ignorance, and vala, you have yourself a conspiracy. v.v
Bain
2- Well the production of rebuilding or weaponry being implemented only came after the two wars following the 9/11 attacks and these companies otherwise woudlnt have the business.

THE OIL PRICES skyrocketed during this conflict.
The prices went up right after 9/11 and after the Afghan war basically finished the main process, the prices went down again, then, suddenly the Iraqi war starts and prices skyrocket again and have gone up since.

Obviously, I am not saying that is the reason, and I completely believe it, but it is a huge possibility.

I won't go into more details because Im not wasting time arguing with such a thinker as yourself.

4- I am talking about specifics of a government engineered plan, while you're talking about a being who created the world we know and who was represented and exploited on earth by people who have backwards laws in place which cleverly cover up other parts of the faith or at least keep people from questioning it.

I'm just saying why can't the government by more specific in explaining 9/11.

I mean, the spend much more money on more trivial shit.
Qdeathstar
QUOTE
2- Well the production of rebuilding or weaponry being implemented only came after the two wars following the 9/11 attacks and these companies otherwise woudlnt have the business.


Im sure there is plunty of business for military weaponry, even if your not in active conflict. v.v.

QUOTE

THE OIL PRICES skyrocketed during this conflict.
The prices went up right after 9/11 and after the Afghan war basically finished the main process, the prices went down again, then, suddenly the Iraqi war starts and prices skyrocket again and have gone up since.


This is an effect, not a cause.

QUOTE


Obviously, I am not saying that is the reason, and I completely believe it, but it is a huge possibility.


then why mention it.

QUOTE

I won't go into more details because Im not wasting time arguing with such a thinker as yourself.


like i said, Just like believing in God. All it requires is a lot of faith and a little ignorance. If you cant support yourself, dont bother giving an opinion. It really would save time.

QUOTE

4- I am talking about specifics of a government engineered plan, while you're talking about a being who created the world we know and who was represented and exploited on earth by people who have backwards laws in place which cleverly cover up other parts of the faith or at least keep people from questioning it.


right. Eitherway, they are both just about as unbelievable and outlandish of a fantasy.

QUOTE

I'm just saying why can't the government by more specific in explaining 9/11.

I mean, the spend much more money on more trivial shit.


1. They arent getting re-elected by lobbyists based on what they find about 9/11
2. reliable sources havealready explained why the towers collapsed
3. The United States Intelligence Agency has been degridated since the cold war ended, and is only now just starting to pick back up.
Bain
QUOTE
Im sure there is plunty of business for military weaponry, even if your not in active conflict. v.v.



Its obvious to anyone with a brain more would be made during war.

QUOTE
This is an effect, not a cause.



So, does that mean you couldnt see the effect and make sure it came about later?


QUOTE
then why mention it.



Because we cant just sit around on our thumbs like a robot like you plainly obeying most things the government throws out.

Not to mention, THIS FUCKING TOPIC IS A DISCUSSION FOR FUCKS SAKE.


QUOTE
like i said, Just like believing in God. All it requires is a lot of faith and a little ignorance. If you cant support yourself, dont bother giving an opinion. It really would save time.


I could make that same argument for your side of the 9/11 situation, so it really is trivial.
Also, I already gave enough details you keep thinking you proved wrong.

QUOTE

1. They arent getting re-elected by lobbyists based on what they find about 9/11
2. reliable sources havealready explained why the towers collapsed
3. The United States Intelligence Agency has been degridated since the cold war ended, and is only now just starting to pick back up.


1- ..And? What does that have to do with anything?
2- Link?
3- degridated isnt a word
Qdeathstar
QUOTE(Militant Bain @ Apr 21 2006, 12:34 PM) [snapback]1138380[/snapback]

QUOTE
Im sure there is plunty of business for military weaponry, even if your not in active conflict. v.v.



It’s obvious to anyone with a brain more would be made during war.


right, and like the people who make bombs have more influence of public policy that Microsoft and Walmart do.

QUOTE


QUOTE
This is an effect, not a cause.



So, does that mean you couldn’t see the effect and make sure it came about later?


Im sure you could, but why would United States want to do that for? Dumbledore?


QUOTE



QUOTE
then why mention it.



Because we can’t just sit around on our thumbs like a robot like you plainly obeying most things the government throws out.

Not to mention, THIS FUCKING TOPIC IS A DISCUSSION FOR FUCKS SAKE.



Right... because i dont think the twin towers are an act of the government, that means i obey the government.. wooah. Your badass man, real bad ass. Stand up for you GOVERNMENT GIVEN right to free speech, badass you.

QUOTE

QUOTE
like i said, Just like believing in God. All it requires is a lot of faith and a little ignorance. If you cant support yourself, dont bother giving an opinion. It really would save time.


I could make that same argument for your side of the 9/11 situation, so it really is trivial.
Also, I already gave enough details you keep thinking you proved wrong.


The diffence being, that while your theories are based on idiocencrossity**? and ignorance, this is based on fact, and sadly for you, not paid for by the government.

QUOTE

QUOTE

1. They arent getting re-elected by lobbyists based on what they find about 9/11
2. reliable sources havealready explained why the towers collapsed
3. The United States Intelligence Agency has been degridated since the cold war ended, and is only now just starting to pick back up.


1- ………..And? What does that have to do with anything?
2- Link?
3- degridated isn’t a word



1. It matters because the government is going to spend MOST of their time on WHAT gets them re-elected, not on whats best for the country. Thats why we are so concerned about gay marriage and whether china should be able to buy one of our energy companies.

2. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/

3. Degradated. dont be a prick.
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