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Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
GTA-SanAndreas.com's best friend has returned to his old bandwagon again, by sending a darkly sarcastic letter of complaint to the ESA (Entertainment Software Association). The letter called for the sacking of Doug Lowenstein, the ESA president and founder of the world's biggest videogames expo, E3. His chances were of course boosted by the wave of controversy over the Hot Coffee Mod.

He used his trademark buzz-phrases, suggesting that children "train" on videogames to become "more efficient killers". He also quoted the names of the previous 2 GTA's main characters, Tommy Vercetti and Carl Johnson, for no apparent reason if not to drag GTA further into the controversy. The entire letter can be found here, courtesy of IGN.

Jack Thompson's website


Thanks to GTA-SanAn, and sorry it took so long to get the news on the front page.
Mekstizzle
This is beyond ridiculous.

These games are so unrealistic. How the fuck can someone become influenced by them...let alone become 'trained' by them.

This man has seriously gone off key. wink.gif
Zacko
Here he goes again, I'm not influenced by GTA and neither are 99.9% of people who own it...
Fran
oh god not again wat a fool
FX
He's an idiot. I bet he supports the use of IE aswell....
Pyrocy
All I read on there was "blah blah blah asskiss asskiss and I am a cocksucking hypocrite."
FuddMan
It won't be long before an avid GTA player who has been "trained" to become a "more efficient killer" does some damage to him. JT just doesn't know when to stop...
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
My personal favourite was "I'm a republican" "I, as a life long republican", "I, a lowal republican" etc.

That and his glorious misuse of the word "Jihad"
Vlad
QUOTE
His approach, as the President of your Entertainment Software Association, is to demonize critics and to engage in ad hominem jihads intended to obscure real concerns about real industry abuses.


...Uhhh. You mean like using holier-than-thou personal attacks on someone's credibility? You wouldn't know anything about that, huh?

QUOTE
Lowenstein has done this time and time again, alienating lawmakers and turning off media with his 'You're a fool, and I'm a genius' mindset.


Let's recount some of the responses Ole' J.T. gave to some valid emails on his site.

QUOTE
Your Doug Lowenstein is similarly "loosely educated" about the United States Constitution.


You mean like freedom of speech?

QUOTE
My fervent prayer as a Christian is not "Lord, give me more friends." It is rather "Lord, give me more enemies like Doug Lowenstein."


...which is un-Christian, in itself.

QUOTE
If you want your industry destroyed, keep Mr. Lowenstein right where he is.


An extremely popular, multi-billion dollar industry destroyed by a handful of lunatics on the political fringe? Keep trying, dipshit.

1UP
ah, isnt our gta loving lawyer just so presuis, trying to be succefull for once, its just so cute...

... Yea Im... Im... making fun of him, nothing to worry about, his name is a pratical joke now.
Tommy Vercetti
I agree Jack, I agree! You're a dumbass!
sm33th
What a great man Jack Thompson is... Haha, ya right!! Man, that guy is seriously fucked in the head to think everybody who plays a video-game is "training to become an efficient killer". The people that actually think it's real are just weak minded bastards... dry.gif
QUOTE
My fervent prayer as a Christian is not "Lord, give me more friends." It is rather "Lord, give me more enemies like Doug Lowenstein." He makes what I do so easy

What exactly does Mr. Thompson do?
EDIT:
On another note, this is just helping GTA with publicity... Negative or not, it's still good for GTA.
Venairial
JT needs to mess with sum other games. sanandreas has been out for a while. TRY SUM NEW GAMES DUMBASS!!
El-lobo
wink.gif

His letter didn't make sense, and even though he said he wasn't here to give his opinions, it was nothing but opinions.
Also, the way he writes makes nobody ever take him seriously.
Weeeeeeeener
OMFG this is funny, I love this shit!
I wish I could speak to that dickhead in real life.

Ofcourse if I want to be a good killer , doom is the game that I'll train on! (yeah right).

PS: new name for next GTA head character MUST be jack thompson or JT / Jay Tee to cover it up.

EDIT: I like how he has put a link to rockstar games website on his website.
jrl2395
"My kids aren't going to go steal cars because they played Grand Theft Auto, but if they did, they'd be damn good at it."

-John C. Dvorak
Omega9
I have jacko's email, so i'll be ripping his letter apart in a full scale verbal attack on him in hopes that he possess the ability to argue his own case. We'll just have to see...In the mean time, the email will take some time to write so I will be dedicating my time to it instead of the forum (That'll probably make alot of you happy). When its done, i'll send it, make a topic, and post whatever response Jacko throws my way.

This is a laugh, I find it hard to belive anyone takes this group seriously. I'll be enjoying this...

In the meantime, any attacks directed at me will be handled by my slave Mr. Nice since i'll be dedicating alot of my free time to the email
rocking 2 -apc- 4 ever
yo this guy needs to get a frigin life!!! u know i think this guy was deprived as a child so he wants to get back at the world or some thing like that...or hes just a hippie or gay and doesnt approve of violence! who cares...hes just got a stick big enough to go around the world up his own ass!!! someone tell him to f*** off!!!!!
DeKo
woops, i shot my dad because of GTA. ah well

get fuckign real. lets dress up as a black person, get a "bullet" and go do drive bys.

ye really realistic.
Demon Lord Tyrus
QUOTE(FX @ Jul 19 2005, 06:14 PM)
He's an idiot. I bet he supports the use of IE aswell....
[right][snapback]758538[/snapback][/right]


Shush about that *looks around nervously*

Anyway, he's spouting his usual crap by the sounds of it, how can a mod made by a player of the game be the fault of .. that guy ... (forgot name during post time) or Gta's , after all, the only thing of a "sexual nature" gta put in was some sfx, it was the mod maker(s) who made the skins, animations, and found the rooms that are in the hidden interior glitch to make the mod, afterall.
Neon™
I admire his perserverence. I also admire that he keeps going even tho his opponents outnumber his proponents like the Chinese Army outnumbers the entire population of Africa.
rocking 2 -apc- 4 ever
QUOTE(Neonspinnaz24 @ Jul 19 2005, 10:24 PM)
I admire his perserverence. I also admire that he keeps going even tho his opponents outnumber his proponents like the Chinese Army outnumbers the entire population of Africa.
[right][snapback]759227[/snapback][/right]


dude if u admire this guy i can only imagine waht kinda ass ur gonna be when u get older...so u basiccally admire him cause he fights for what he believs in? well what he believs in sucks!!!
Neon™
Never said I agreed with him. I just admire him, like you said, "cause he fights for what he believes in" even tho nearly the world is against him and his life is screwed from all the hate he has taken.
GTA Jeebus
QUOTE
If you want your fledgling industry destroyed for all of you, keep Doug Lowenstein right where he is. Events, like Columbine to the factor of ten, will take care of that. You won't be able to blame Senator Rodham Clinton. She is trying to prevent that calamity.


Columbine times ten? This guy has gone off his rocker, completely reminds me of Team America.

"It will be 911 times a thousand!"
rocking 2 -apc- 4 ever
QUOTE(Neonspinnaz24 @ Jul 19 2005, 10:31 PM)
Never said I agreed with him. I just admire him, like you said, "cause he fights for what he believes in" even tho nearly the world is against him and his life is screwed from all the hate he has taken.
[right][snapback]759262[/snapback][/right]


ok ill give him that...thats all...i think hes outta his mind for goin against the world though
waisted menkey
it seems to me like he is trying to tag along with HRC to further his noterioty. though i have het to see what Hillary stated in her news conference, from what I've gathered from the news she only has an issue with the Hot Coffee Mod and how it effects the games overall ESRB rating.

imo, JT has yet to produce any facts showing how video game violence has allowed weapons to fall into the hands of angry teens. nor has he given proof as to how the game teaches them to deal with such real life gun issues like recoil. it's just absolutely silly. and to say the games desensitize children from violence is silly considering all the blood and gore in modern TV and the NEWS.

when a theatre allowes an unaccompanied 12yr old into an R rated movie, do we go after the Producer/Director of the movie? When a quickie-mart sells a pack of smokes and a beer to a 15yr old do we go after Mickey's and Marlboro? Oh that's right, we go after the "store" whick broke the law. IMO, stores should be held responsible for ensuring the games are not being directly sold to minors, just like Tobacco, Alchohol and Porn.

I thought a Jehad was a "religous war." considering all that letter does is state that JT is a christian and a republican it seems more that he is riding the Jihad train, not the Lead of the ESA.

--------------

and as a side note, to everyone who thinks it's impossible for him to win his personal Jihad against Rock* let us not forget, 2 Live Crew did get banned from selling albums in the US. Free Speach or not, anything can happen if you convince enough unknowing American Citizens you are right.
Pyrocy
Yes, Monkey but times have changed. He targetted 2 Live Crew when the rap back then didn't even reach a million dollar industry. Plus, a lot of people back then were stupid and condemned it. Jack is a assclown, pure and simple. I have found numerous contradictions in his open letter and stupid ass cheapshots.

Simply put, Jack Thompson's bark is bigger than his bite.
animecivil
Well I'll say this.

This is mostly a problem because either:

A) Parents Did Not Raise Their Kids Right
cool.gif A Person Who Needs Counceling Got Ahold Of The Game

First of all, there will always be people who get influenced by violent video games, and at the moment it's about 1/1000 000 people. You will ALWAYS find people who are violent, etc.

Criminals back in the 30's had no violent games nor movies to teach them to be the way they are.

It is the problem of how parents raise their child. First of all, parents shoudl be very strict about any bad behaviour the kid does in the earl stages (ie: ages 3 - 12).
I have observed many parents "punishing" their kids for things such as theft, or rudeness to people such as "Oh Johnny don't do that, it isn't very nice"

...You know what the kid will think "What the F**k do I care, what will oyu do, ground me?"

So there first off, parent need to be much more strict other than just grounding their kids.

Second of all, movies are pretty much just as bad as the games. You see something interesting in the movie, have no education about it, what will you do? You will try it out.

In games you can at least find out the consequences, but movies these days are very much unrealistic and everything is thought out perfectly well so the trick will actually work.

What I reccomend is that after parents "brutally" punish their kids, they talk to them about it. They should firs to fall ask them if they know what they did, and/or if they know if they know if it is wrong or not. Talk to them abotu it and tell them the consequences and why it is wrong.

This kind of talk should be done while the child is very young, so that by the time the child is 12 years old, he/she will know what is rightand what is wrong.

Again, we come back to the kids that went violent. This is because they were not taught respect while at ages 6 - 12 (WHEN OF COURSE GTA DID NOT EXIST), meaning that GTA had nothing to do with their violent behaviour.


I hope that people will take my post seriously and not flame me smile.gif
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
The thing is, he says the videogame industry will fall... the way it's going it'll overtake the film industry unquestionably by 2008.

And Pyro, of course it's full of contradictions, do you not know this guy? He's so bloody patronising for a start, and most of the letter is about his opinions of how patronising Lowenstein supposedly is. IMO, he should be allowed to act Holier-Than-Thou. I mean, where the hell would we be without booth babes?
Looney510
that guy is a retard said children use the game as training for killing, doesnt he kno only 18+ can play that game and by the time they are mature for this content everything is fine. but im not 18 so.........smile.gif
OptimumPx
All I know is that using auto-aim in a GTA game really made me good at shooting. o_0
waisted menkey
QUOTE(OptimumPx @ Jul 20 2005, 02:11 AM)
All I know is that using auto-aim in a GTA game really made me good at shooting.  o_0
[right][snapback]759665[/snapback][/right]


Exactly!!! There is no way any game could possibly train a single person to understand and know how to use a modern weapon. there are so many aspects of firing a weapon which the game does not address nor does it have a chance to with the current video game interface. the only thing it could possibly "teach" anybody is a headshot pwns....there are about 1000+ other games which teach that very same lesson.

imo, oldschool nintendo "Duck Hunt" had a more realistic gun interface than any of the GTAs have (though I personally feel a "gun" shaped controler with video recognition capabilities would only enhance the GTA experience).

-----

oh, and btw, after re-reading this thread another thought came to me. someone mentioned 99.9% of GTA players are "normal." I feel the need to point out that number is WAY unrealistic. it should be more like 99.99999% considering more than 5 million copies have been sold and only a handful of n00bs have tried to use any of the GTA series as their scapegoat.
Washunka
QUOTE(mello_yello @ Jul 19 2005, 05:33 PM)
GTA-SanAndreas.com's best friend has returned to his old bandwagon again, by sending a darkly sarcastic letter of complaint to the ESA (Entertainment Software Association). The letter called for the sacking of Doug Lowenstein, the ESA president and founder of the world's biggest videogames expo, E3. His chances were of course boosted by the wave of controversy over the Hot Coffee Mod.

He used his trademark buzz-phrases, suggesting that children "train" on videogames to become "more efficient killers". He also quoted the names of the previous 2 GTA's main characters, Tommy Vercetti and Carl Johnson, for  no apparent reason if not to drag GTA further into the controversy. The entire letter can be found here, courtesy of IGN.

Jack Thompson's website


Thanks to  GTA-SanAn, and sorry it took so long to get the news on the front page.
[right][snapback]758474[/snapback][/right]


lol i was watchin comedy central last night and it was carlos mencia and he had this skit about how bad the cops were at shooting and how some nut was sayin that kids are training at arcades and shit . Carlos says "there was this detroit kid shot 8 bullets hit 9 people but then on the news last night i was watching cops and three officers shot 22 bullets at an SUV and not even one hit the vehicle. maybe we should give them a roll of quarters and send them to the arcade."

anyways back on topic nobody actually takes that ass monkey seriously i guarantee you Jack has played a number of those violent games which he hates so much.
Crazzytzar
I think its the people that start killing others need help or some kind of treatment. Video games are form of entertainment, just like movies and music, they're there so a person can play them and have fun. The person that takes that shit seriously, and picks up a gun and starts shooting people are the ones that need help, theres no reason to sue a company. These days if someone gets shot, or someone steals a car, its blamed on "violent" video games.
waisted menkey
QUOTE(Washunka @ Jul 20 2005, 04:48 AM)
lol i was watchin comedy central last night and it was carlos mencia and he had this skit about how bad the cops were at shooting and how some nut was sayin that kids are training at arcades and shit . Carlos says "there was this detroit kid shot 8 bullets hit 9 people but then on the news last night i was watching cops and three officers shot 22 bullets at an SUV and not even one hit the vehicle. maybe we should give them a roll of quarters and send them to the arcade."

anyways back on topic nobody actually takes that ass monkey seriously i guarantee you Jack has played a number of those violent games which he hates so much.
[right][snapback]760018[/snapback][/right]


ROFL! I saw that episode too! now that WAS SOME FUNNY FASHIZZLE!!!!!
Bishop
Will that guy ever shut up? He wrote ten thousand words just complaining about the hot coffee mod? Interesting that he mentioned he is a republican. I mean, does it matter?

I play GTA, I don't go out and whack sb for their cars. I won't even walk on the street and call people homies! The hot coffee mod may be interesting at the beginning, but not after a while. What does he worry about? Is he ascetic or sth?
Pyrocy
Generally, Video games cannot train someone to kill. Due to the fact that most games are developed into a abstract unrealistic structure. While it may help people have better percision and quickness, it does not give a full fledged figure into converting kids into killing machines. How the hell can I be a professional sniper by tapping the X button? I can't. The senseless acts caused by the school shooters are a by-product of social neglegance and personal issues amongst the prepetrator. Games can only be a small catalyst in the mindset of someone and if it is, that person needs to be evaluated.

A scapegoat cannot be used as valid evidnece that a mature indiviual commits violent or obscene acts. Kids shouldn't be playing this game anyways because some kids like to emulate what they see in their media mediums. (Jackass, anyone?) That's why I like self-regulations from parents and retailers. All this lip jabbing up in Washington is not going to help the problem in the long run. The people up in D.C. are merely using it as a political drive. (Remember kids, in politics, you have to the biggest ego and penis)

You can compare "anti-game" politicans as a gossip group or a circle amongst others who share the same, distorted, and feeble logic. Only this time, they have the media to spew out their nonsensical rhetoric and this is what enrages (most) GTAholics and gamers alike. They also have a so-so grip on legislation flows and the like. Politicans want publicity the same way celebrities do and they will do anything to get it.

I can share some sort of sympathy with concerned parents but you get to a point where you actually regulate your kids and teach them a open minded philosphy, the rights and wrongs, and the difference between fantasy and reality. (fantasy is tangible, folks.) Instead of joining a organization similar to the PTC that have a political agenda. We (as gamers and as parents) should educate ourselves on speficially on what the game has. We know that GTA has non violent content like stunt wars, races, paramedic missions, and taxi missions. We also know that GTA is a almost full far cry from the "realistic simulation" that the biased media describes it as. Hell, Splinter Cell and Metal Gear Solid is more realistic than GTA.

If parents and politicans want to turn the other cheek and go with their blind agendas, that's fine but if they want to put on a good debate (and keep their credited reputation), they need facts because that butter-scotch coating of publicity stunts and cheap one liners is soon going to dissolve in the prime era of the debate and you are going to be the ass of jokes years to come. I am sorry but people like to watch their enemy media head influences burn out, it's a sadistic form of entertainment. I am honestly trying to develop common ground amongst both sides of the issue but unfortunately, the opposing side will not hear us and would rather fall on deaf ears and continue to drive their political train off the tracks.

Since the dawn of TV, endless opposition has been complaining and pushing hack legislations because they deem it "too offensive or too crude". It may be the case but today's politicans are doing the same thing: They're repeating history. They couldn't learn from the mistakes their predecessors made. They say ignorance is bliss but I tend to disagree because ignorance is hurting this country and it's general view on the videogame industry. Biased journalists are blasting the papers and articles with "it gives you points for killing cops and banging hookers" and that is when you know the arrogance and ignorance have hit rock bottom on major media outlets. A journalist's job is to research facts that have little to no biased agenda attached.

The other side of the arguements need to enlighten themselves and not dig themselves deeper into their agenda holes and that is something they can't blame on us.

-Pyro
I Made Your Mom In GMod
Precisely. Pyro has it there in a nutshell. And FFS listen to this...
"George Bush simply said "Parents just have to be better parents." He should trying telling that to my clients in Paducah whose three daughters were gunned down by 14-year-old video gamer Michael Carneal, who trained on Doom to become a more efficient killer. What did they, as parents, Mr. President, do wrong? Was sending their kids to school their mistake?"
Their fucking mistake was letting their 14 year old son buy an 18 (if he means Doom 3) rated title and let him play it 24/7. This retarded fucking non-human being hasn't even looked at the facts yet.
Thunderstruck
it really annoys me how they continue to fight a losing battle. Rockstar aren't going to stop making games anytime soon and doug lowenstein isn't going to be sacked. Although I'm sure if a game like this came out when he was about 13 or something like that. he wouldn't have wanted to play it would he. Why won't he just take his head out of his ass long enough to notice that none of the world really gives a damn about what he says apart from maybe that attention whore in the white house hilary clinton
Russian
All he do is making good comercial for Rockstar's GTA series. Really.

Even if Hot Coffe wasn't hacker shit and it is Rockstar's thing (I don't doubut about it) it was a commercial bomb and nothing more...

To prove my point of view: Just look at Gamespot's news and Top Games and u will see what this Hot Coffe made with people...
BreathMints
Well, why would he give Rock* the fault? They have put it in the game, but not really, I mean, they let it out! And this way, It will get commercial stuff, which is good for the game. And, if he really tries to take the game industry down, and he actually does it (which will never be, but for an example), he will get the whole world on his neck.
Massacre
No threat intended, but, if he did get the game industry shut down, some game fanatic would shoot the son of a bitch...
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
Another thing about the Doom 3 scandal...I couldn't watch the original Doom 3 trailer alone, Jesus Christ they're already desensitised enough if they can play through it all at age 14.

As for shooting realism, shouldn't they go to Time Crisis first O.o

Anyway, if they shut down every violent game in the world (as if), sports games are still a multi-million dollar industry in itself. So's the kids game industry (Jak, Ratchet, all sorts of Nintendo stuff). It's just not going to happen.
HB~Sauce
Hey, I'm new here, but don't worry, I won't post meaningless topics because I'm a Mod on another forum, Anyways, I'm tired of GTA and Rockstar taking the blame for what is in alot of other games. For example, 25 to life is coming out soon? It's basicly GTA: San Andreas with Snoop Doggs voice. Do you think they will be blamed for supposedly "training killers"? No, because everyone likes to focus on one game, usually the starter of the series. Does that make GTA worse than 25 to Life or 50 Cents upcoming game? Hell no!
Massacre
Right. GTA doesn't affect anyone's mind. It doesn't make anyone want to kill. People that blame GTA when they go on a killing spree only blame GTA because they would rather get an uninvolved party in trouble because they refuse to take ressponsibility for their own actions.
Octavius
There he goes again...guess what, Jack? NOBODY CARES ANYMORE. And you better FRIGGIN WATCH IT, BUDDY. You do NOT go around using FALSE QUOTES about one of my country's greatest leaders! mad.gif
Repoman
QUOTE(Zacko @ Jul 19 2005, 12:53 PM)
Here he goes again, I'm not influenced by GTA and neither are 99.9% of people who own it...



But with millions of copies sold, that means you are still saying that thousands of people are being influenced by it.

Bishop
I'd say the only person who got so influenced by GTA is Jack Thompson!
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
QUOTE(The_ORIGINAL_Repoman @ Jul 23 2005, 04:07 PM)
QUOTE(Zacko @ Jul 19 2005, 12:53 PM)
Here he goes again, I'm not influenced by GTA and neither are 99.9% of people who own it...



But with millions of copies sold, that means you are still saying that thousands of people are being influenced by it.
[right][snapback]767587[/snapback][/right]

That's such a technicality...

Anyway, if I was caught killing people (which I won't be, it's hard to get caught for something that you didn't do. Unless your black. True story.) Then I'd blame it on George Bush, I need to become a more efficient killer for the war on terrorism [insert maniacal laugh]

And Octavious, what leader did he quote O.o
jsk663
Hi, I'm a new member. Anyway I'm angry that GTA:SD was pulled off the shelves when I was finally going to buy it.

Anyway I found these quotes pretty funny and outrageous
QUOTE
My fervent prayer as a Christian is not "Lord, give me more friends." It is rather "Lord, give me more enemies like Doug Lowenstein." He makes what I do so easy.
(Yeah, I know everybody's posted this one alot) Ask any pastor and he'll say that this isn't the right way to be a Christian, even if JT seems to have over exaggerated his faith towards the Almighty.

QUOTE
I, as a lifelong Republican, am going to thank Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton.


And reffering to this previous quote:
QUOTE
George Bush, as Governor of Texas, gave a state tax break to Id Software of Dallas, the makers of Doom, after Columbine, for Heaven's sake, and it is his Department of Defense which has subsidized with taxpayer dollars the creation of violent video games for teen consumption

and
QUOTE
Don Rumsfeld is supposed to be catching terrorists, not training them.


Arn't they like Jack Tompson's Republican god's? He should burn in hell for speaking so blasphamously about Bush and Rumsfeld, stop me if I'm wrong.
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