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Bain
Which do you believe and why. This goes back to government systems. People like John Locke and Nicholai Machiavelli had different ideas on this.
MetGreDKo
Ignorant - why would we need schools to educate ourselves and others if people weren't born that way? Why would we be doing studies and such to learn if we weren't?


I see nothing in terms of "good or evil" thus I can not choose any of the other options.
Pyrocy
Neutral and ignorant. Young people have a so called tender state of thought where its superiors or parents can mold the young person's train of thought to their own fitting. It varies from efficieny and how much you do it. We can take for example of some serial killers who were brought up extremely sheltered from the "horrors" of life. Its better to desensitize (although, not to an excessive point) your kids at an early age. By then, they have the skills to help build their new character during the adoloscene period.
Qdeathstar
Stupid and Ignorant, are not the same thing.. so grouping them is .. useless.
Mekstizzle
People are born evil. Thanks what i think. You have to grow them up so they dont kill someone etc. ''Although is killing someone evil? o_O'' Yes. Yes it is. dry.gif.
Also, they are evil becuase humans were natuarrly evil way back so its ''programed'' into our brains. Me thinks. I coulld go on but i wont.
CaldMagi
People are ignorant but they're not born that way. I think everyone is neutral in a way, but ofcourse some can become ignorant/stupid more easily then others.
guess who# 2
I think we all start out as a blank slate and the enviroment we grow up in shapes the person we become.
Bain
QUOTE (Qdeathstar @ May 8 2005, 01:14 AM)
Stupid and Ignorant, are not the same thing.. so grouping them is .. useless.

That option is stupid and ignorant, because most fo the time, the two go together.
Donnie
I believe everybody's personalities and attitudes are a product of the environment. That’s why a lot of people are brought up to be wankers and walking contradictions.

People are brought up to be competitive egotistical wankers. This is due to the environment that surrounds them. At school they are taught to be competitive because the teachers make each class compete against each other, they also make the pupils compete against each other as well for the best grades. The school and the system teach the children to be good workers for the system. "Good workers dies young". The system try’s to squish out every possible feature of co-operation.
This is all a form of learnt behavior and I can prove this. For example if I was to hit a person what would be the first instinct of that person? It would be to move out of the way, this is a form of learnt behavior.
Its exactly the same for personalities, we are taught to be competitive and “shitty”.

Also you’ve herd your mother say "Don't do that in front of your younger brother because he’ll learn to do that and think its ok". You see babies and children are very aware of what other people do, this is how they learn and develop. I mean they learn to walk by watching how others do it; this can also be applied for their personality and attitude. If children are brought up in a competitive environment they will learn to be competitive.

Nuture has a much stronger standing over Nature.

Also if people are inherintly evil then why do they put so much emphasis on having a prime minister or president?
Austin
QUOTE (Donnie @ May 8 2005, 06:51 PM)
Also if people are inherintly evil then why do they put so much emphasis on having a prime minister or president?

What donnie is trying to say is, with communism there will be no bad people smile.gif

Poor kid has got it in to his head that capitalism is the root of all evil.. I blame the parents.
Donnie
Parents are also a product of the capitalist system as they used to be young themselves and were taught to be competitive.

You refuse to believe that capitalism has flaws, open your eyes. Its the most logical thing.
Communism teaches co-operation not competition. If people co-operate there is not fighting. tongue.gif

You’ve herd the saying "two heads are better than one". tongue.gif

Why have poor kids got it into their head that its the system? Any logical person knows that people are shaped by the environment.
I mean Pyro is probably not a communist or a poor kid but he knows that people are shaped by the environment.

The only people who refuse to believe that people are a product of the environment are religious fundamentalists, they believe that its the "devil inside them" that makes them evil and there nothing like a bit of "converting" or "mass killing" that won't do them any harm rofl.

If people are evil and bad then why do we have schools? I mean schools are for learning? But if we are all evil then what’s the point teaching people to learn about stuff because were all going to be evil anyway?
Austin
QUOTE (Donnie @ May 8 2005, 07:04 PM)
Parents are also a product of the capitalist system as they used to be young themselves and were taught to be competitive.

You refuse to believe that capitalism has flaws, open your eyes. Its the most logical thing.
Communism teaches co-operation not competition. If people co-operate there is not fighting. tongue.gif

You’ve herd the saying "two heads are better than one". tongue.gif

Why have poor kids got it into their head that its the system? Any logical person knows that people are shaped by the environment.
I mean Pyro is probably not a communist or a poor kid but he knows that people are shaped by the environment.

The only people who refuse to believe that people are a product of the environment are religious fundamentalists, they believe that its the "devil inside them" that makes them evil and there nothing like a bit of "converting" or "mass killing" that won't do them any harm rofl.

If people are evil and bad then why do we have schools? I mean schools are for learning? But if we are all evil then what’s the point teaching people to learn about stuff because were all going to be evil anyway?

You really are so withdrawn from the real world aren't you.. You've been brainwashed with this shite. No one else I've ever come across looks at things in the way you do rolleyes.gif


You are about as far from down to earth as you can get.

"Communism teaches co-operation not competition. "

So that means sports are banned?

Have you any idea how boring it would be if we became a true communist society? You've been brainwashed donnie.. you're no better than some religion fundamentalist who only believes the shit he believes because he was brought up that way.

You really should mellow out with this communism will save us all crap and get a life and come in to the real world.. it scares me that people like you exist in my country.
Bain
Not to mention, more kids are taught to share than to keep for themselves.
NCP
Just stay on topic, this is about how people are born, not Communism vs Capitalism...
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
This may be cheesy, but people are what they are, not everyone is a blank canvas (eg the same) when they're born. The first two are void when you think about it, because if everyone was born the same way then that'd become neutral.
Qdeathstar
people are born communist, and they then turn capitalist.


In addition, a child is ignorant, but he isnt stupid, miguel.

AS far as this goes, im going with Ignorant, nuetral. Unless they have some mental disorder, then they are naturally bad and should be euthanized.
Donnie
My argument was about how people personalities and attitudes are easily influenced by their environmental surrounding, you can say the environment is capitalist or "communist", what I’m saying is what behaviourists have been saying for the past century.
Everybody is a product of the system. I mean there are people who dress fashionable and that is product of the system and so their personalities are there for changed by the system because they have this personality where they want to be fashionable. It’s the same for me I’m a product of the system in the sense that I reject it, and so my personality is formed through the rejection of the system that I live in.

So i basically believe people are brought up to be complete wankers.
goatslunch
Would a clone of Aldof raised in a different enviroment still want to concure to world and set fire to the Jews?

I doubt it.

If he was raised by the same carers in the exact maner and enviroment as
Bill Gates would he have become GEO of microsoft.

Not likley.

People are inderviduals
They are born with differnt degrees of interlect, emotions and physical abilities.
Influenced by experience and enviroment these traites continue to develope our priorities and personalitys.

Even if Aldof had been born a year later than he was and five miles down the road he may very well of had a totally different outlook on life.






NCP
Although, he only started hating the Jewish people in the end of his youth, for example when his mother died and when he tried to go to college.
FuXKeNNy
QUOTE (PyroHazard @ May 8 2005, 07:11 AM)
Neutral and ignorant. Young people have a so called tender state of thought where its superiors or parents can mold the young person's train of thought to their own fitting. It varies from efficieny and how much you do it. We can take for example of some serial killers who were brought up extremely sheltered from the "horrors" of life. Its better to desensitize (although, not to an excessive point) your kids at an early age. By then, they have the skills to help build their new character during the adoloscene period.

ditto

they are born stupid and neutral. If your born with John Kerry as your father, you will not be the same as born as Bush son. It makes no sense. Kids are what they learn and seee
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
When you think about it, it's stupid, it's your genes, it's your parents, your friends, the city or town that you're raised in, I doubt it'd be possible to create the same person twice, even if you cloned him and dropped him in the same place. He'd make different friends, different choices...if you cloned me and dropped me in the same place, sent me to the same school moved house to the same house and generally tried to simulate my life I'd still be a different person. To say people are born the same is an underestimation of human nature.
Austin
^I agree.. the way your brought up definitely has an influence on the way you turn out but it isn't solely responsible.
El-lobo
I believe, as a Muslim, that all people have already submitted themselves to God, so they are born good. But they are also very easily swayed because their parents may be bad and that will turn their kids out bad too.
Coreyko
People are born stupid and ignorant or else school and education of any sort would be irrelevant.
CaldMagi
^ Why?

That doesn't make much sense.
Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester
Define stupid. Ignorant means they don't know things, stupid suggests they're idiots.
Young Escobar
I believe everyone is born stupid because you have to be educated
Austin
Humans are born with basic instincts and learn a lot of things on their own.. all humans aren't born stupid just ignorant as other people have said.
Olisple
i find that people are born neutral, you never know what kind of person they will become.
Edgecrusher
QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ May 8 2005, 08:14 AM)
Stupid and Ignorant, are not the same thing.. so grouping them is .. useless.
[right][snapback]601621[/snapback][/right]

They're not mutually exclusive either; you can be both ignorant and stupid. In fact, I'd say ignorance usually (not always) stems from lack of intelligence.

I voted C and D, but I think naive would be a better term than stupid. Obviously people are not born geniuses but this implies lack of experience, not intelligence. People are born neutral, they can be swayed towards either good or evil by outside influences just as people can better themselves or stagnate depending on the stimulus they recieve or lack thereof.
Austin
QUOTE(Edgecrusher @ May 13 2005, 10:04 AM)
QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ May 8 2005, 08:14 AM)
Stupid and Ignorant, are not the same thing.. so grouping them is .. useless.
[right][snapback]601621[/snapback][/right]

They're not mutually exclusive either; you can be both ignorant and stupid. In fact, I'd say ignorance usually (not always) stems from lack of intelligence.
[right][snapback]611835[/snapback][/right]

Ignorant means not knowing something so how can that usually mean lack of intelligence.. for example a tribe living in the Amazon jungle are completely ignorant of the outside world.. that's not because they're unintelligent, it's because they have never seen it.

I spose there a different types of ignorance for example if someone genuinely believes all French women don't take showers then that could be called stupid ignorant.
Edgecrusher
QUOTE(Austin @ May 13 2005, 10:11 AM)
QUOTE(Edgecrusher @ May 13 2005, 10:04 AM)
QUOTE(Qdeathstar @ May 8 2005, 08:14 AM)
Stupid and Ignorant, are not the same thing.. so grouping them is .. useless.
[right][snapback]601621[/snapback][/right]

They're not mutually exclusive either; you can be both ignorant and stupid. In fact, I'd say ignorance usually (not always) stems from lack of intelligence.
[right][snapback]611835[/snapback][/right]

Ignorant means not knowing something so how can that usually mean lack of intelligence.. for example a tribe living in the Amazon jungle are completely ignorant of the outside world.. that's not because they're unintelligent, it's because they have never seen it.

I spose there a different types of ignorance for example if someone genuinely believes all French women don't take showers then that could be called stupid ignorant.
[right][snapback]611840[/snapback][/right]

I said stems from, and I didn't say always. Naive is a better word than ignorant, naivety never stems from stupidity, you can argue that ignorance does though because ignorance can be entirely voluntary.
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