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> Parliamentary Chaos, In Sweden
SirPsychoSexy
post Sep 24 2010, 09:38 AM
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Sweden went to election last Sunday, the result:

The Alliance (Centre-Right) - 49,3 % - 173 seats
The Red Green Coalition (Centre-Green-Left) - 43,6 % - 156 seats
The Sweden Democrats (Nationalist) - 5,7 % - 20 seats

1. The Centre-Right already ruling government won, this is the first time since the right to vote was introduced in Sweden.

2. The Social Democrats that have ruled almost uninterruptedly for nearly a hundred years got their worst result in nearly a hundred years (30.6 %). Social Democracy seems to be on its way down in Sweden, as it's been in the rest of the world.

3. An extremely nationalist party (and also racist), The Sweden Democrats entered the parliament. Once before has a party hostile towards foreigners been in the parliament (1991-94), New Democracy, but SD is more well organized and more outspokenly racist.

4. The Alliance didn't get the majority of the seats which means that there will probably be parliamentary chaos since no one wants to co-operate with the Sweden Democrats. The situation is probable to be very unstable and there won't be any balance.

Any thoughts on this developement?


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demon
post Oct 8 2010, 09:37 PM
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QUOTE (SirPsychoSexy @ Sep 24 2010, 11:38 AM) *
Any thoughts on this developement?

Yes.


I don't like all of SD's politics, but I love that they got their 20 seats. You swedes (not you personally) should be ashamed of how you treat the SD party. Your other parties, your media and general public does not realize that they are no better than SD.

Some parties talked about blocking SD from taking parts in the various "utskott" (I don't know the English word for this), which is completely undemocratic.

SD got 5.7% of the votes. Now it's popular and "political correct" to disrespect and hate SD, the reason is that SD is hostile to immigrants. But all those who are hostile to SD should remember that they are not much better than SD.

I don't like political correctness. I fucking hate Swedish political correctness. I'm not too proud of my country (your neighbor in the west), but I would be outright ashamed if I was Swedish today.


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QUOTE (Marney1 @ Jan 31 2010, 06:37 AM) *

That's for you ^
Use it in your sig or avatar because you are very special.

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SirPsychoSexy
post Oct 10 2010, 06:10 PM
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Norweigan huh? I would have guessed Danish from reading your post.

I don't know why you love that SD got into the parliament if you don't agree with their politics. Most Swedes don't agree at all with them and are therefor we're making a statement, we deteste that way of looking at people and are, unlike in many other nations, taking action against it. In a democracy you have the right to protest, we're not denying SD any rights, we're simply fighting them fair and square.

That never happened, it was talked about by individual congressmen but all parties said no to it.

The difference is that SD are hostile toward immigrants, they're making a wide generalisation and use predjudices and lies which they base their politics on. We're not fighting the people themselves but their politics, which is righteous. Doesn't make everyone who hates SDs politics the same as SD who hate immigrants.

Political correctness is good to some extent, but it shouldn't effect the politics itself. I am a bit ashamed of being a Swede because of SD, that's my only reason.

I'm glad someone finally showed some interest in this at least smile.gif


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demon
post Oct 10 2010, 08:57 PM
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The main reason why I love that SD got 20 seats is that I feel sympathy for them, after all the shit everyone is throwing at them. And I love that the other blocks now have to deal with them.

I took the party test at svt.se.
Before I took the test, I knew very very little about SD and I didn't expect to like any of their politics. I knew they were controversial and I thought it was for a good reason. But the question in the test did not reveal SD as a racist party and to my big surprise I got this result. The few question I didn't answer was questions on things that are unique to Sweden and I could not answer them. It was a couple questions on health care, taxes and schools.

I'm no racist and if this result is not making sense then we can only blame the questions in the test. But I doubt the makers of the test would let any chance of revealing SD as ugly slip by.

I don't feel I know the Swedish parties enough, and I might not have voted SD after studying the full programs. I probably disagree strongly with SD on some things, but I don't see them as the monsters everybody try to make them into.

But regardless if I like their politics or not, I still love the fact that they got their seats. They can no longer be ignored and treated as trash.


QUOTE
We're not fighting the people themselves but their politics, which is righteous. Doesn't make everyone who hates SDs politics the same as SD who hate immigrants.

I can't speak for SD, but I guess they fight the mass immigration politics, not the immigrants personally. I don't think they throw eggs on immigrants or otherwise harass them. SD needed police protection in order to carry out their right holding public meetings. Many meetings was aborted or cancelled due to demonstrants. In my opinion, these people are worse than SD.



So you are ashamed eh? Lol I'm also embarrassed over my country, but for different reasons. biggrin.gif


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QUOTE (Marney1 @ Jan 31 2010, 06:37 AM) *

That's for you ^
Use it in your sig or avatar because you are very special.

QUOTE (TF)
for being a little bitch
Edited by TF.
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SirPsychoSexy
post Oct 12 2010, 04:44 PM
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There are several things that are important to remember when you talk about SD:

1. It's a party that when it was created in the late 80's it was openly racist and even nazi. Several people were convicted for violent crimes, many of them including violence against immigrants. When the current party leader joined, in the mid-90's, it was still openly racist and it was around that time when the board had to forbid members to wear Nazi costumes to the meetings. During the past decade they've reformed and are now a "clean" party. But the leading people joined when it was "unclean", purely racist and nazi. False front? Seems likely.

2. They are a single-issue party. Immigration has, until recently, been their only issue. The rest of their program is pretty much a mix of the other established parties politics. For one they they say they want to build on the Social Democrats idea of the Swedish Welfare State, yet the board members (including the leader) were filmed about a year ago singing offensive songs about the murdered, legendary, Social Democratic Prime Minister Olof Palme and his wife. Not very credible if you ask me.

3. They are a populist party using an ancient tactic, blaming problems in society on a single group of people (like Hitler blamed the Jews for instance).

4. SD openly says that they don't only want to cut immigration with 90% but also "encourage" immigrants already living here to go back to their countries of origin as well as forbidding all immigration from Muslim countries. In their program they state that they believe in a "homo genetic" state and not a multicultural country. They believe in assimilation and not immigration, if that's not racist then I don't know what is.

5. The leader of the party published a chronicle in a major newspaper where he said that Islam is the biggest threat to Sweden since WWII. People in the party have suggested that it should be illegal to practise Islam.

Well, you can't be proud of everything in your country, can you? Swedish people generally, including myself, aren't very nationalistic.


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demon
post Oct 12 2010, 07:16 PM
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1. I didn't know that. But I like to see them as what they are now, not what they used to be. Perhaps they are bad characters but I look at the politics, not the characters. In both our contries, we vote for parties, not persons.

2. I know immigration is their one big issue, but in the test I took I had other "heart issues" like transportation and petrol taxes and still I got the result I got. SD must be allowed to borrow issues from other parties, we can't demand them have everything unique.
The singing sounds bad, I wonder if I heard about it one time but I've forgot.

3. Immigrants as a group does bring with them problems. But immigrants are not a race and are you sure you can compare SD to Hitler?

4. That's not a problem. I support SD there.

5. I guess terror is the biggest threat and Islam the second biggest. So he's wrong but not by much.

By the way, I love Sweden. But I really didn't like how Sweden dealt with SD. How can you deal with immigrants if you can't even deal with a political party?



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QUOTE (Marney1 @ Jan 31 2010, 06:37 AM) *

That's for you ^
Use it in your sig or avatar because you are very special.

QUOTE (TF)
for being a little bitch
Edited by TF.
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SirPsychoSexy
post Oct 13 2010, 07:44 PM
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1. The people still make up the party, and if their intentions are different from what they actually say, which wouldn't surprise me if it was the case, that's a huge problem.

2. Well, the problem is that they've just stolen policies and such because they have nothing to come with except their views on immigration, but to be taken seriously they have to have policies in other issues as well. They're a populist party and have chosen policies that seem most popular.

3. That is a myth. It's a vulnerable situation to come as an immigrant, but the problems don't come with the fact that you're an immigrant but with social status. Integration is the key, which means effort from both immigrants and "natives".

4. That, as I see it, makes you a racist and an idiot. We need immigration for growth, without it we'd get recession in large scale, that's a largely accepted economical fact for western societies. It's purely racist to deny only muslims visas, if you agree with that, I can only say you're a racist.

5. That is ridiculous. How is islam a threat to our societies? Fact is Sweden and Norway as well, I think, are secular states. Christianity and Islam are quite similar religions if you look closely, very closely related, almost the same infact. Values in our societies today aren't taken from religion but from humanism. Being secular and based on humanist values, religion of the citizens really shouldn't matter too much.

And I love Sweden as well. The problem is that the integration politic hasn't been very good, so fact is that the past decade(s) we haven't been able to deal with immigration. That is the reason why SD gained so many votes and is, in my opinion, their only point (that the integration politics isn't working). But the it's important to see that it's not the immigrants nor immigration that is the problem, but the tactics of integration, integration is what has to work. SD doesn't want to integrate, they want to assimilate, which pretty much means for all immigrants to abandon their religion, cultural heiritige and identities.


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