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> UK General Election 2010
Who do you support?
Who do you support?
Conservatives [ 6 ] ** [46.15%]
Labour [ 1 ] ** [7.69%]
Lib Dem. [ 2 ] ** [15.38%]
BNP [ 4 ] ** [30.77%]
Other (specify) [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Independents [ 0 ] ** [0.00%]
Total Votes: 13
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Passionate Homo ...
post Apr 18 2010, 08:40 PM
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QUOTE (pieface @ Apr 18 2010, 05:05 PM) *
I know you hate Thatcher, as that's a part of Scotland, but you need leaders who are tough, like she was. Could you imagine the country now if Callghan stayed in power? Unions probably would have pretty much full control, the miners would still be here, even though when they were destroyed, they were already a dying industry. Thatcher got us very close to USA, which has its benefits, she got us near the top of the EU before Labour destroyed that. Labour are just a weak party, who lied to the country, and to the house of commons to get us to enter into an illegal war, as Blair was too weak to say no to Bush. Brown is too weak to say no to the Unions. It seems to be a theme with Labour. Callaghan was weak to the Unions as well, and his predecessor was just weak generally and didn't care for the country (Hence he left at the worst time possible, because of his age). To be honest there is no good party at all in the UK, and as you say the idiotic section of the population are the reason parties get into power. If you watched Have I Got News For You, it proves it with the old man, and Nick Clegg story.

I'm just wondering, with being a student, how do RBS owe you 4k? Surely you should be getting a huge amount of money, to be taxed that much.
The "strong leader" is a favourite myth of politicians. Who were history's strong leaders? It's the military conquerors and the vast oppressors, the hammers of the poor (and in a handful of Communist examples, the middle classes). Bush was re-elected so easily because of the need for a "strong commander-in-chief", and I needn't invoke Godwin's Law to know what the extreme example of what the lust for a strong leader can do.

Another famous misconception, and one much loved by the Conservatives, is that being in thrall to the few strong makes you any stronger than being in thrall to a coalition of the weak. The Tories and Labour are at each other's throats regarding Ashcroft and Whelan, but the fact is neither have a strong case. They are both weak to the demands of different interests, the Tories have just spun it better in recent times.

Further compartmentalisation is evident with regards to US relations: Thatcher was to Reagan as Blair was to Bush, the relationship was not balanced. Thatcher fell into the arms of the United States and made the UK the weak partner in the world's most powerful 3-way alliance (if you include Israel). The fact that she did this against the wishes of the nation means she is regarded as "strong" by her supporters, but simply as a weak bully by the rest of the world. Blair was a wet blanket when it came to standing up to America, but he's not the only one to blame. Not forgetting: the Conservatives backed the Iraq war too. Only the Lib Dems were against it, of the major parties, and that escapes the minds of most Conservative voters.

Now I'm not saying the Lib Dems gaining a significant swing will change the world in the next 5 years by their amazing policies. There are already Tories lining up to say what a shit job every Liberal has done in the cabinet, in the case of a hung parliament. Such is politics. But a significant gain for them nationally is the only conceivable way to stop the rot in British politics. It will stop the marginalisation of ~10% of the informed voting public who tactically vote Labour to block the Conservatives. It will mean that the big two can no longer fuck up, drop out and then wait to get back in when the others fuck up. It will bring the public back into politics, more than any of this "Big Society" bollocks ever could.

Now I don't like Labour and I don't see Brown as any more than a symptom of their hegemony. Cameron is clearly just a car-boot sale Blair. And Clegg is no Nye Bevan himself, but he represents a large majority who have been shunted into voting against their principles by the self-interested Labservative order. Surely, then, the answer is clear to anyone who just doesn't want more Labour?

As for the 4,000, if RBS went under, the money they keep for me would be unrepayable. It's as simple as the banks defaulting on their responsibilities if the money disappears. The point is, it's normal people that would lose out if the banks were allowed to go under, so sadly normal people had to help themselves out there.

This post has been edited by Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester: Apr 18 2010, 08:41 PM


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Pieface
post Apr 18 2010, 08:51 PM
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Strong Leaders are those who can stand up for what they believe in. Hence Churchill was a very strong leader, he said from the beggining that the Nazi's were a threat, even though people put him to the side. He never let down and look where it lead. Thatcher stood up against the Unions and the Miners which lead to the government gaining full control of the country.

Also, you say the Conservatives agreed to the war, you do know that all the parties were mislead through the house of commons, which is what this Iraq enquiry has been proving. Even Blair saying he would of gone in even if he thought there were no WMDs.

Labour have just been constant poison to this country, with lies after lies. The war was a lie, the Money for honours scandal etc.

And I see, I thought you paid a huge amount of tax into RBS, not that you just held money in their account.


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Passionate Homo ...
post Apr 18 2010, 10:17 PM
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QUOTE (pieface @ Apr 18 2010, 09:51 PM) *
Strong Leaders are those who can stand up for what they believe in. Hence Churchill was a very strong leader, he said from the beggining that the Nazi's were a threat, even though people put him to the side. He never let down and look where it lead. Thatcher stood up against the Unions and the Miners which lead to the government gaining full control of the country.

Also, you say the Conservatives agreed to the war, you do know that all the parties were mislead through the house of commons, which is what this Iraq enquiry has been proving. Even Blair saying he would of gone in even if he thought there were no WMDs.

Labour have just been constant poison to this country, with lies after lies. The war was a lie, the Money for honours scandal etc.

And I see, I thought you paid a huge amount of tax into RBS, not that you just held money in their account.
I'd appreciate a little less of the "you do know [obvious thing that you probably assume to be a game-changer]", it's a little condescending.

Churchill was a strong leader, and great for wartime. But altogether he was a paranoid maniac, as Operation Unthinkable illustrates. He was a crusader, and probably would've been first into the breach in 2003 if he was the right age for it. He existed at the right time, our heroes don't have to be perfect (and other such platitudes).

Tony Blair was a strong leader. He believed strongly in the need to depose Saddam Hussein. His story is a telling parable about the love of decisiveness and strength of leadership that we espouse as a culture.

The Conservatives can feign innocence as much as they like, but they looove war. Half the reason for the drift right in this country is the left's decimation due to the popularity boost the Falklands handed to Thatcher. The ability to depose a tyrant at the side of the USA was irresistible to Tory types, and that is why they voted, almost without exception, for it.

This post has been edited by Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester: Apr 18 2010, 10:17 PM


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Darth Sexy
post Apr 25 2010, 12:58 PM
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QUOTE (Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester @ Apr 17 2010, 06:32 AM) *
"Frankly, I think you're getting the wrong advice on the debates. As you know, people who saw Nixon and Kennedy on TV thought Kennedy won, and those who heard it on the radio thought Nixon won. But, really, we don't give a flying wad of wet Daily Express about either of these groups. What we need to know is: what about the people who were sitting through JFK-Nixon on the can doodling specs on cartoon-strip pictures of Daffy Duck and making themselves laugh with the sounds of their own farts? Who did they think won? Most people are not going to see these Bestivals of bore. After all, with the 478 debate rules in place they're going to have all the drama of three middle-aged guys fencing with limp dicks. The only ones watching are going to be the pointless bastards who already know what they think." - Jesse Armstrong

For context, Malcolm Tucker is a fictional character based on Labour spin doctor Alastair Campbell, in The Thick of It. He speaks the truth, sadly.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/20...abix-dictaphone the follow-up article, should it interest you.

I know nothing about British politics, but all I can say to that is this. Welcome to Australia.


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QUOTE(Lmoz96 @ Jul 27 2009, 08:31 PM) [snapback]1514882[/snapback]
Marney1... you know that I can literatly kill you
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Passionate Homo ...
post Apr 25 2010, 08:59 PM
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Heh.

Parliament is hung like a donkey.


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demon
post Apr 26 2010, 03:11 AM
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Didn't know the UK was a democracy. XD.png


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QUOTE (Marney1 @ Jan 31 2010, 06:37 AM) *

That's for you ^
Use it in your sig or avatar because you are very special.

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0bs3n3
post Apr 30 2010, 06:15 AM
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Yeah ok I don't get it. It seems like all the candidates are attempting to look as 'moderate' as possible, to the point where they all start sounding the same. Why have the Lib Dems distinguished themselves especially? I watched the debates and he sounds exactly like the other two, except possibly more confident.
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Pieface
post Apr 30 2010, 10:07 AM
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Lib Dems look like they're doing well, and distinguishing themselves because the other two won't dare dig into him. Clegg has got them both at his feet, because if it goes to a hung parliament, he's the one to decide who he goes and supports.


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0bs3n3
post Apr 30 2010, 09:17 PM
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Nick Clegg: "Can I just move beyond the political point scoring..."

"I'm totally with you there Edwina..."

Wolf in sheeps clothing detected. Are people forgetting he's a politician like any other?
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Pieface
post Apr 30 2010, 09:38 PM
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He got too cocky in the last debate, which is why he never won. He looked like a twat in the end.


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demon
post May 1 2010, 06:28 AM
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If this is the true Gordon Brown then I'm happy he forgot to switch off the mic. Good to really know the candidates before the election.


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QUOTE (Marney1 @ Jan 31 2010, 06:37 AM) *

That's for you ^
Use it in your sig or avatar because you are very special.

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Passionate Homo ...
post May 5 2010, 12:56 AM
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QUOTE (0bs3n3 @ Apr 30 2010, 07:15 AM) *
Yeah ok I don't get it. It seems like all the candidates are attempting to look as 'moderate' as possible, to the point where they all start sounding the same. Why have the Lib Dems distinguished themselves especially? I watched the debates and he sounds exactly like the other two, except possibly more confident.
The real issue to the small minority of informed Lib Dem supporters (for few voters choose for actual good reasons) isn't that Clegg has acquitted himself fantastically well in the debates. The reason he's polling so well is that there was an unspoken attitude regarding third parties, that they must be third parties because they're abject idiots, and all good people would join the hegemony if they were capable. It has ever been thus, and by being shown on TV not to be an idiot, Clegg showed himself to be at least the intellectual equal of the other two. In answer to the accusation that he is unremarkable or that it is unfair that he was there: it is remarkable that he is there and it is only to redress the 60 years of unfairness that he was allowed to be there. The illusion of the well-meaning failure was utterly destroyed when the lay-voter was allowed to see the third party on a level footing with its otherwise inexplicably more popular rivals.

The real reason for the Lib Dems' success is that they are, in at least one way, genuinely out of the establishment. Rupert Murdoch hates that a party over whom he cannot exert influence may have some share of power. His vehicles' vicious personal attacks on the man (some completely irrelevant, out of context and wrong -- CLEGG IN NAZI SLUR ON BRITAIN* most famously) and desperately unsubtle propaganda dressed as objective journalism (the Times first edition called the second debate a draw -- the copy that went out in the morning called a Cameron victory). This is a man who has very specific vested corporate interests and who has had the ear of every government for the last 20 years. His papers have never even acknowledged the Lib Dems And he hate that someone who he (an unelected and unpopular force) doesn't control might have a shot at power.

There are other reasons: Vince Cable is an excellent treasury spokesman amidst a global recession and the party's views on major issues such as Trident and tuition fees are fit well with those of many informed voters. But the main reason for their popularity is that the public have seen three men: a public relations manager, a former Prime Minister and some other guy. The fact that there isn't much difference should not be shocking, but given the way the public has been conditioned, it is. And that shock is enough to put a party in contention.

* Nick Clegg wrote an article about German workers being harassed and called Nazis to the point where they quit their jobs in 2002. He mentioned that this was in part due to an unhealthy obsession Britain has with the war. Fair enough, it does. We have a false sense of grandeur (in thinking Britain is or was the economic, military and political equal of the US/USSR) and a false sense of superiority over Germany and German people unrelated to the war that continues to this day. The right-wing press took it out of context and printed that headline on national front pages.

[Edit] That Disgusting Nazi Slur In Full.
QUOTE (Pieface @ Apr 30 2010, 11:07 AM) *
Lib Dems look like they're doing well, and distinguishing themselves because the other two won't dare dig into him. Clegg has got them both at his feet, because if it goes to a hung parliament, he's the one to decide who he goes and supports.
Statistically, Cameron attacked Clegg most in the second and third debates, whereas Brown attacked Cameron most. Just sayin'.

QUOTE (demon @ May 1 2010, 07:28 AM) *
If this is the true Gordon Brown then I'm happy he forgot to switch off the mic. Good to really know the candidates before the election.
They all have contempt for the electorate. Of course, that Brown should lose out from it is only typical of Labour's situation. I just think it's unfair to assume the best of Cameron, just because his mic has never been on at an inopportune time. After all, old Gideon Osborne is famously no fan of the working man.

This post has been edited by Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester: May 5 2010, 03:23 AM


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QUOTE(LMOZ)
drive carfuly,because every secend a shrak can teleport itself to your car, and try to drive your car (if you have one) with shark in it.
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0bs3n3
post May 7 2010, 05:42 AM
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Lib Dems actually losing seats? I lol'd.
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Passionate Homo ...
post May 7 2010, 08:38 AM
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:shrug:

People.


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Pieface
post May 7 2010, 10:06 AM
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Our constituency still hasn't been announced lol. Out of 650 seats, we're one of the last 30 at the moment. Should be 20 minutes apparently though.

Labour held their seat at us, damn. I blame Ellesemere Port, it's a shit hole as it is. Perfect Labour candiancy witht he amount of benefits and crime that goes on their.


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0bs3n3
post May 7 2010, 10:19 PM
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So what's the bet of another election before the year is out?
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demon
post May 7 2010, 10:56 PM
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I lol'd a bit when the Libs got about 20% of the votes and only about 5% of the seats. I understand the demands for a system reform. That would make the system more fair to all parties but it would also make it less likely that you would get a stable government.

A more unfair system could be better; let each vote for the biggest party count as four votes. With a system like this the biggest party would get more than 50% of the seats. Jumpy.gif



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QUOTE (Marney1 @ Jan 31 2010, 06:37 AM) *

That's for you ^
Use it in your sig or avatar because you are very special.

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Edited by TF.
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Passionate Homo ...
post May 9 2010, 02:31 AM
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That is literally the Conservative talking point: tip things in our favour, because that is possibly good for the country!

It's 1750s high Toryism all over again.


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QUOTE(LMOZ)
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0bs3n3
post May 9 2010, 05:53 AM
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Fuck proportional representation. I don't know how anyone could delight in an unstable coalition government. It gives me a headache just to think about it.
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Passionate Homo ...
post May 9 2010, 10:23 PM
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France, Germany, Finland, Spain, France, Sweden, Italy, Norway, Denmark and the Netherlands all have PR. These countries all have AAA credit ratings, something the Tories threaten the nation with losing if they don't gain a majority. The word for "hung parliament" in Germany, our current economic superiors (yes they are, suck on it) is the same as the word for "parliament".

But Greece has a strong majority government, so all is not lost!

I've never seen a solid claim for the merits of FPTP, and the fact that it gives one a headache hasn't changed that. In fact, if you'll excuse my saying, it's the level of discourse the electorate has come to expect of Murdoch's rags.


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