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Massacre
post Feb 15 2009, 03:05 AM
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QUOTE(werewolf23 @ Feb 14 2009, 09:19 PM) [snapback]1484052[/snapback]
Don't become a total whore for them by going all-rockstar all the time. that'd be a ton of free publicity just for getting some free gifts and shit. cool that you got that stuff, and a plane ticket and what not, but don't let them take advantage of you. they can afford it, so if they want a lot of extra publicity, let them pay for it. you already do enough as it is.

It's not about publicity, it's about taking note of the fact that Rockstar makes other games than Grand Theft Auto, and updating the site accordingly. Rockstar is just about the only company that would do what they did for Psy and the other webmasters. Psy and the others put a shit load of work into their sites and don't get nearly as much appreciation as they deserve, but Rockstar gives them that appreciation. Rockstar loves their fans as much as their fans love GTA, and the least we could do is acknowledge their other games. It's not whoring, it's devotion.


--------------------
QUOTE (Darth Sexy @ Sep 12 2009, 03:43 AM) *
Massacre, you make me look like a rational, moral, kind person.
QUOTE (Marney1 @ Oct 26 2009, 01:22 PM) *
Massacre - What you've just posted is sick and disturbing...
QUOTE (ViceMan @ Jan 17 2010, 04:22 PM) *
When Massacre is around, everything is violated... Whether it likes it or not.
QUOTE (ViceMan @ Mar 6 2011, 09:40 AM) *
Whenever I think of "human resources" Massacre immediately springs to mind.


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fug34
post Feb 15 2009, 03:24 AM
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I'm with werewolf23 on this one. Massacre, there is truth to what you say in that it is cool Rockstar did this for a few GTA sites, I think it is only looking at half the picture to say Rockstar cares that much, like I mentioned before those Manhunt guys have got absolutly nothing in the 4 year they have covered the Manhunt games, no one else is covering that stuff. I think it is great to see Psy and some of the other guys get proper recognition and absolutly agree that they deserve it.

Regarding Manhunt 2 on PS3/360, Bully was ported long after the fact to 360/Wii and then PC only a few months back. Table Tennis was ported to the Wii late and Midnight Club 3 and Warriors ported to the PSP ages after the fact so I don't think time passing would effect Manhunt 2 being given a next gen coat of paint.

I have read all about the $50 million pay out to Rockstar by Microsoft, but I personally think that is timed. I would expect the DLC on PS3 after the second DLC pack is released on 360. Plus Rockstar said they expect PS3 dlc, there was mention of HOME content and a Sony Europe guy said nothing is exclusive forever and suggested people ask Rockstar, seemingly hinting at something.
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Massacre
post Feb 15 2009, 04:57 AM
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How does werewolf bitching about how reporting more Rockstar news is "whoring" relate to Rockstar overlooking the solitary Manhunt fansite? Because Rockstar didn't know about a fansite that didn't recieve nearly as much traffic as the GTA fansites, their other games don't deserve to be covered? Apparently, I've misunderstood, but I'm sure Manhunt games would get more attention if they were being covered by GTA sites, considering that GTA has a larger fanbase than Manhunt.


--------------------
QUOTE (Darth Sexy @ Sep 12 2009, 03:43 AM) *
Massacre, you make me look like a rational, moral, kind person.
QUOTE (Marney1 @ Oct 26 2009, 01:22 PM) *
Massacre - What you've just posted is sick and disturbing...
QUOTE (ViceMan @ Jan 17 2010, 04:22 PM) *
When Massacre is around, everything is violated... Whether it likes it or not.
QUOTE (ViceMan @ Mar 6 2011, 09:40 AM) *
Whenever I think of "human resources" Massacre immediately springs to mind.


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Roman
post Feb 15 2009, 04:22 PM
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I think fug34 and werewolf23 have been sucking too much boners lately...

Psy already covered this in his 5 page essay you morons, a lady in the airport asked him if he is getting paid, and he said no... but he is getting a free trip to New fucking York, so what is the big deal?

And frankly I agree with Massacre and Psy. He gets a free trip to New York, and promotes the game a bit. So what? What is wrong with supporting the product that he and millions of others love? It just means more sales, which means more money which means a better next GTA game.

PS

After actually READING werewolf23's post, I realize that not only does he suck cock, but is also a moron. Once again, people fail to understand what EXCLUSIVE means. I don't want to sound like an Xbox fanboy, but people are just so stupid and therefore I have to insult them.

werewolf23: Look up the word exclusive before I punch my monitor. The PS3 is not getting The Lost and Damned, and it is not getting the next DLC either. Anything after that has not been announced, but isn't out of the question. AND PPS Sony hasn't paid for exclusive content yet, so it means Xbox will get whatever PS3 gets.

This post has been edited by Roman: Feb 15 2009, 04:29 PM
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TwoFacedTanner
post Feb 15 2009, 04:38 PM
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I know I'm on the late bus here, because theres other stuff people are talking about.

But you should totally give one of you Xbox consoles to D-O. Because the day this comes out, hes gonna lose the will to live I think.
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werewolf23
post Feb 15 2009, 06:21 PM
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i was only saying don't be taken advantage of. they make other good games, sure. but you're running a GTA site. don't get them to get you to spread yourself too thin, just for another free xbox/plane ticket or whatever. that stuff won't even be 'free' if you're doing a bunch of work for them, as in giving them hours of your time and publicity and etc.

why someone would think that an opinion someone has= being homosexual is beyond me. THAT seems ignorant, and rude.

anyways, great site, Psy (and others). Keep up the good work. you DO deserve some recognition, and it IS cool of rockstar to spread a bit of their welth around in appreciation.

just don't let them take advantage of that, alright?

peace.
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Roman
post Feb 15 2009, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE(werewolf23 @ Feb 15 2009, 06:21 PM) [snapback]1484114[/snapback]
i was only saying don't be taken advantage of. they make other good games, sure. but you're running a GTA site. don't get them to get you to spread yourself too thin, just for another free xbox/plane ticket or whatever. that stuff won't even be 'free' if you're doing a bunch of work for them, as in giving them hours of your time and publicity and etc.

why someone would think that an opinion someone has= being homosexual is beyond me. THAT seems ignorant, and rude.

anyways, great site, Psy (and others). Keep up the good work. you DO deserve some recognition, and it IS cool of rockstar to spread a bit of their welth around in appreciation.

just don't let them take advantage of that, alright?

peace.


I was TRYING to be ignorant. I am an ignorant asshole... Have you by any chance never used the internet prior to today?

Anyways... I guess you don't understand what a free fucking trip to New York is. If Rockstar flying you to New York to be the first to play an awesome game and at the same time get drunk, meet US girls, have sex, then play some more GTA means that Rockstar is taking advantage of Psy... then I am asked Rockstar now to please take advantage of me so I can fly to NY get some pussy free liquor and play games. Dolt.
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werewolf23
post Feb 15 2009, 09:10 PM
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QUOTE(Roman @ Feb 15 2009, 01:20 PM) [snapback]1484123[/snapback]
QUOTE(werewolf23 @ Feb 15 2009, 06:21 PM) [snapback]1484114[/snapback]
i was only saying don't be taken advantage of. they make other good games, sure. but you're running a GTA site. don't get them to get you to spread yourself too thin, just for another free xbox/plane ticket or whatever. that stuff won't even be 'free' if you're doing a bunch of work for them, as in giving them hours of your time and publicity and etc.

why someone would think that an opinion someone has= being homosexual is beyond me. THAT seems ignorant, and rude.

anyways, great site, Psy (and others). Keep up the good work. you DO deserve some recognition, and it IS cool of rockstar to spread a bit of their welth around in appreciation.

just don't let them take advantage of that, alright?

peace.


I was TRYING to be ignorant. I am an ignorant asshole... Have you by any chance never used the internet prior to today?

Anyways... I guess you don't understand what a free fucking trip to New York is. If Rockstar flying you to New York to be the first to play an awesome game and at the same time get drunk, meet US girls, have sex, then play some more GTA means that Rockstar is taking advantage of Psy... then I am asked Rockstar now to please take advantage of me so I can fly to NY get some pussy free liquor and play games. Dolt.



actually, what i said both times was DON'T let them take advantage. not that they already have. meaning, don't end up feeling obligated to say some game of theirs is good, just because they gave you free stuff or a trip or something. that's one of the oldest tricks in the book, isn't it? butter someone up, hand out 'gifts', then they're obligated to toe the company line.

a free trip to NY, playing games, whatever, sure, maybe it was cool. but i wouldn't wanna sell out just to get that shit.

someone made the comment about more money for rockstar means better games down the line for us. well, GTA4 looked better, but it wasn't as fun or as great, overall, or as memorable of an experience, as San Andreas was. Wasn't as funny and thrilling as GTA 3 or Vice City, either. They've made a ton of loot through the years, and yet somehow this last game didn't have the same life or fun or whatever in it. did it? it seemed a lot was lacking. i know that's an old topic here, but... and if they just left a lot of the best stuff out, so we'd all have to pay more for it later, that just sucks. seems greedy. good thing all games aren't like that.

if rockstar really want to spread their wealth around, fine. just don't end up being taken advantage of. ok? if you're gonna really work for them, make sure you get onto the payroll, make it legit. otherwise, it's just basically free publicity. besides, why go off too much into their other games, if your specialty is GTA? someone else could always do that for them... this is a GTA site! not a 'rockstar' site. correct? or is that changing now?

and there are such things as loyalty, sure. as well as integrity.

wouldn't expect a self-proclaimed 'ignorant asshole' to be able to comprehend that, though.

Give me 50 Million dollars and I'll fly all of you to NY, and the drinks and games will be on me, too. and I'd still have at least 49 Million dollars left. the xboxes they gave out came from someone else, they didn't pay for them... it's all a tax write off, also, so, don't go thinking they're all heart over there or something. it's BUSINESS. Free Publicity. good fun for Psy and etc., but, rockstar's not gonna win any humanitarian awards because of it. grow up. free shit can weigh the spirit down sometimes.

ya' dig?

good work Psy. been checking into this site since before GTA-SA, and it really is the best. Wasn't saying you're a whore. just hoping you don't end up becoming one. this site just wouldn't be any good if you did that. keep it GTA-based. that's the best.






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fug34
post Feb 15 2009, 11:20 PM
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and I think Roman has a big old mouthful of Rockstar brand semen. Amirite? wink.gif

As far as Rockstar being cool about flying Psy and selective others out to play their game, I think you are overestimating Rockstar, many other developers have been doing this for years. From the top of my head I can name IO Interactive, Crystal Dynamics, Lionhead, Insomniac Games regularly open their doors to fans as well as communicate with them on a regular basis, Monolith (on a weekly basis at that), Capcom are known to give out work in progress versions of their games to fans as well as set them up with studio visits and interviews. Konami set people up with interviews and demos as well as pre-release versions of their games to fan sites. Valve bring fans in to play their games as well. I am sure I know of others that do it as well but I believe I have shown significant proof that Rockstar are not doing anything unique by allowing Psy and others access to their games a few days/weeks before release.

I would go as far to say that it isn’t necessarily so “cool” that they do it as much as it is something that these web guys deserve for their dedication. I wouldn’t like to hazard a guess at how much work goes into the upkeep of this place.

Massacre I think you are being slightly lenient towards Rockstar again here, they DO know about the Manhunt website, there have been posts where they got a response from them and even talking with people from different studios. To put this in more comparison it was those Manhunt guys who found out about Manhunt 2 leaking and co-operated with Rockstar in removing links, torrents, videos etc all of which resulting in a bit of a backlash against those guys other at that site. they were also reporting on manhunt 2 a full two years before Rockstar announced it, I believe Rockstar requested they remove content as well so they are more than aware of those guys. Those chumps (no offence to them) who run Project Manhunt have bent over backwards for Rockstar more than any fan site I know of and it has resulted in little in way of a thanks to them. They also report on Rockstars other games and have done so since inception. So my point was it seems the more you do the less respect is earned or given by Rockstar.

Because they say it is exclusive doesn’t mean it is, just like GTA III, Vice City, Manhunt and San Andreas were all exclusive to PS2 right? How about those exclusive PSP GTA releases that DEFINETLY would not come to PS2? Hmm… I have no doubt what so ever that this content will come to the PS3 eventually. Take-Two and exclusive don’t really work out, remember that Xbox exclusive shooter, umm what was it again, oh yes, BioShock.

It is absolutely publicity Rockstar are after by requesting Psy cover their other games, they are trying to sweeten him up then stick it in his rear, honestly I don’t believe for a minute Rockstar care too much about their fans as much as they do sales, they are after all a business and it is proven by how selective they are. How about Schu who runs Gouranga? I doubt that he ever hears from Rockstar now, why? Because he doesn’t update all the time anymore, but when San Andreas came out they flew him out, his name is even on a texture in Vice City.

werewolf23, I believe Roman is baiting you on purpose here, just saying don’t get too wound up about it. It’s his “thing” : )
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Psy
post Feb 16 2009, 12:24 AM
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I don't want to get too involved in your debate. Both sides make good points. I do think that people who put their free time, effort and in most cases with websites, their money too, into something like a fan site, they earn the right to be rewarded. No one deserves to get any recognition for it. As you're probably aware, there are thousands of games websites covering games made by Rockstar. A lot of them are small, but even with the bigger ones, it still took 2 or 3 years before Rockstar even contacted me.

I can understand everything you're saying about Rockstar "taking advantage" of us webmasters. I guess it would kind of look like that from your end. The way I see it though, we get a lot of traffic for people who want GTA info. GTA is Rockstar's biggest game by far. A lot of people like GTA but probably haven't heard of, or played many of their other games. For GTA, they've been good to me with sending out screenshots and stuff, so hopefully I can arrange something with them so they'll send us screenshots for other games too, then we can at least spread the word. I don't doubt for a minute that our fansite rewards are a return for publicity, but from speaking to some of their employees, they are genuinely are appreciative of the work we put in on our websites, and I don't have a problem with posting a little news post every now and then to let people know that R* are bringing out Red Dead Redemption or something.

I do specialize in Grand Theft Auto which is why I do, and will continue to run my GTA websites. I guess this is a world exclusive... But I have been working on a new Grand Theft Auto website about 4 hours a day, almost every day this year. I'm not saying too much about it, but it has TONS of features and it's based hugely around a community theme. I think you'll all like it. So to clarify, I'm not going to change the site to be about Rockstar or anything else. I will stick to GTA and I'll always be running a GTA fan site. I am however also considering running a smaller website alongside the new GTA site specifically about Rockstar's other games. It would be a Rockstar Games fansite if you will. It won't be as big as this site, and it won't cover each of the games in too much depth, but we'll post news and new screenshots for other games when they're released.

To be honest it's a win/win situation. GTA will be covered in as much depth as it is now, but we'll also post about other Rockstar titles, which you have a choice to read or ignore at your leisure.

I disagree that Rockstar Games are simply giving us treats to get us to give them free publicity, because I'd be here doing this website if they still hadn't contacted me about anything. I enjoy making the website and getting the community chatting about stuff. It just took them mentioning it to make me think that they are one of the only game developers who I actually completely respect. Them and Infinity Ward. So why not post some info on their other games? No one's going to be missing out on anything, and people will have the option of learning about other stuff from the makers of GTA.

Anyway, I'll let you all continue your discussion...


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Roman
post Feb 16 2009, 12:43 AM
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Great to hear Psy, I have visited all of your websites daily since you first registered gta-sanandreas.com ... Kind of creep I know, but what can I say. I love GTA.

As for fug34 and werewolf23, if I weren't so lazy I would read your life stories. If you would like to summarize then I will rebuttal or just take the conversation to PM but I will leave you with the following.... You are both wrong, and get your head out of you asses. PS3 will never see Lost and Damned (google: "define exclusive") and Rockstar is not taking advantage of people by flying them to New York.
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Massacre
post Feb 16 2009, 01:13 AM
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Psy, you said it better than I'd care to say it. Also, like Roman said, I don't care to read anymore, so werewolf and fug can go ahead and put on their self-made victory badges and call themselves the winners, I'm done.


--------------------
QUOTE (Darth Sexy @ Sep 12 2009, 03:43 AM) *
Massacre, you make me look like a rational, moral, kind person.
QUOTE (Marney1 @ Oct 26 2009, 01:22 PM) *
Massacre - What you've just posted is sick and disturbing...
QUOTE (ViceMan @ Jan 17 2010, 04:22 PM) *
When Massacre is around, everything is violated... Whether it likes it or not.
QUOTE (ViceMan @ Mar 6 2011, 09:40 AM) *
Whenever I think of "human resources" Massacre immediately springs to mind.


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fug34
post Feb 16 2009, 01:27 AM
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Wow I’m stunned at the reaction from both of you, I was by no means arguing with anyone, I was merely stating my concerns and flaws that I felt you had made in your statements.

But in any event, I stand by what I said before. I believe that Psy and others deserve whatever privileges they were given; it just saddens me that others are left in the dark despite putting in some hard commitment.

If you two had been fans of the Manhunt series and checked out the work those guys did over the years then I am sure you would also share the same concern as I am putting forward here. I have even spoken to Psy about it in a private message and he didn’t respond in such a way to me.

I look forward to your new site Psy, I am guessing it is a site dedicated to GTA as a franchise rather than a particular title and or element such as guides etc.
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victimsfamily
post Feb 16 2009, 11:04 AM
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I agree with werewolf I think.
Anyway no reason not to talk about it.

I guess the risk would be to become some kind of "official" fan site, to lose objectivity or independance or something, even unconsciously. Or at least you're going to be suspected of that !
"meaning, don't end up feeling obligated to say some game of theirs is good, just because they gave you free stuff or a trip or something." as werewolf said it.
Anyway it is obvious that fan sites are big publicity opportunities for R* games.

On another note, and generally speaking, those who use the "homosexual" theme as an offense, it always makes me think they're unsure of their own sexuality...

This post has been edited by victimsfamily: Feb 16 2009, 11:05 AM
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Psy
post Feb 16 2009, 03:45 PM
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If anyone would like a sheet of Lost and Damned stickers, please PM me with your address. I have about 25 sheets left so roughly the next 25 people who contact me will get one. First come first served.


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werewolf23
post Feb 16 2009, 04:17 PM
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QUOTE(Psy @ Feb 15 2009, 06:24 PM) [snapback]1484147[/snapback]
I don't want to get too involved in your debate. Both sides make good points. I do think that people who put their free time, effort and in most cases with websites, their money too, into something like a fan site, they earn the right to be rewarded. No one deserves to get any recognition for it. As you're probably aware, there are thousands of games websites covering games made by Rockstar. A lot of them are small, but even with the bigger ones, it still took 2 or 3 years before Rockstar even contacted me.

I can understand everything you're saying about Rockstar "taking advantage" of us webmasters. I guess it would kind of look like that from your end. The way I see it though, we get a lot of traffic for people who want GTA info. GTA is Rockstar's biggest game by far. A lot of people like GTA but probably haven't heard of, or played many of their other games. For GTA, they've been good to me with sending out screenshots and stuff, so hopefully I can arrange something with them so they'll send us screenshots for other games too, then we can at least spread the word. I don't doubt for a minute that our fansite rewards are a return for publicity, but from speaking to some of their employees, they are genuinely are appreciative of the work we put in on our websites, and I don't have a problem with posting a little news post every now and then to let people know that R* are bringing out Red Dead Redemption or something.

I do specialize in Grand Theft Auto which is why I do, and will continue to run my GTA websites. I guess this is a world exclusive... But I have been working on a new Grand Theft Auto website about 4 hours a day, almost every day this year. I'm not saying too much about it, but it has TONS of features and it's based hugely around a community theme. I think you'll all like it. So to clarify, I'm not going to change the site to be about Rockstar or anything else. I will stick to GTA and I'll always be running a GTA fan site. I am however also considering running a smaller website alongside the new GTA site specifically about Rockstar's other games. It would be a Rockstar Games fansite if you will. It won't be as big as this site, and it won't cover each of the games in too much depth, but we'll post news and new screenshots for other games when they're released.

To be honest it's a win/win situation. GTA will be covered in as much depth as it is now, but we'll also post about other Rockstar titles, which you have a choice to read or ignore at your leisure.

I disagree that Rockstar Games are simply giving us treats to get us to give them free publicity, because I'd be here doing this website if they still hadn't contacted me about anything. I enjoy making the website and getting the community chatting about stuff. It just took them mentioning it to make me think that they are one of the only game developers who I actually completely respect. Them and Infinity Ward. So why not post some info on their other games? No one's going to be missing out on anything, and people will have the option of learning about other stuff from the makers of GTA.

Anyway, I'll let you all continue your discussion...



Cool, cool. Good to hear your point of view. That was kind of the main thing i was saying; stick to GTA on a GTA site, for the most part. Don't let it get watered down due to 'gifts' and what not. Glad you're getting some recognition for all your hard work.

Hard to know if 'the other side' of this debate has any valid points, when they admit to not even really reading other people's posts. Fug and I were seeming pretty positive, overall. With no name calling or rudeness. We want this great GTA site to stay great, not swamped with a bunch of bull and fluff pieces and whatever. Why was that attacked? Ignorance, looks like.

A side-site, about other rockstar games, sounds good. They have made other games that were fun to play, and broke the mold and all of that. Bully and Manhunt, for sure. Red Dead Redemption sounds like it's gonna be great, that's the one I'm looking forward to more than any expansion packs. Why aren't there more Western games? If you write/post stuff about Red Dead, as well as you have about the GTA games, I'll be reading... What's up with their L.A. Noire game, also? That one looked like it could be good. Are they going to make another Bully game? That was a fun one, and it wasn't so violent. Why don't they make a sandbox-type game that's geared more towards everybody playing it, not just killing and blowing stuff up all the time?

And for those who are worrying about the whole 'exclusive'-ness of Lost&Damned, don't. As others have pointed out, that's what they said about the Gta-'Stories' games, how they were ONLY gonna be on PSP. So I went out, spent a couple hundred bucks on all that stuff, and a couple months later the game came out on PS2 for 20 bucks. VCS came out that way, as well. There is so much extra money to be made for them by putting out the expansion stuff on PS3/PC, so just hang on, they're not gonna turn away from all that profit. They're in cahoots with microsoft to get more people to buy xboxes. Once the initial run occurs, they'll pump this stuff out onto the other systems. They haven't yet remained 'exclusive'. Didn't GTA used to only be on Playstation?

I do still think that rockstar is only after the free publicity, though. Did they fly out everyone who runs a GTA-themed site? No. Probably just the bigger ones, with the most readers. Why do you think it took a few years for them to get ahold of you? They finally figured out it would be in their best interests to do so, as in 'free publicity'. Just don't sell out about it. That's one of the best things about this site; It's honestly being run by a true fan. Not someone who's just sucking up or whatever. Keep it up!


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post Feb 16 2009, 04:22 PM
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post Feb 16 2009, 04:33 PM
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QUOTE(werewolf23 @ Feb 16 2009, 04:17 PM) [snapback]1484241[/snapback]
And for those who are worrying about the whole 'exclusive'-ness of Lost&Damned, don't. As others have pointed out, that's what they said about the Gta-'Stories' games, how they were ONLY gonna be on PSP. So I went out, spent a couple hundred bucks on all that stuff, and a couple months later the game came out on PS2 for 20 bucks. VCS came out that way, as well. There is so much extra money to be made for them by putting out the expansion stuff on PS3/PC, so just hang on, they're not gonna turn away from all that profit. They're in cahoots with microsoft to get more people to buy xboxes. Once the initial run occurs, they'll pump this stuff out onto the other systems. They haven't yet remained 'exclusive'. Didn't GTA used to only be on Playstation?

Not gonna write an essay about this, I don't like tl;dr'ing my own posts, but:

LCS and VCS were a little bit different, seeing as the Playstation and PSP are both Sony consoles, and porting PSP to PS2 was almost a copy + paste job. They didn't have a deal with Sony either so they could have released them onto the Xbox if they wanted, but that would have meant more than a simple copy + paste to port and Xbox ownership was very low, and they were already working on GTA IV. The situation now is the exact opposite: there is a deal, and porting from 360 to PS3 properly takes forever (if a developer takes shortcuts, you can tell). It won't be released on PS3, it would just take too long and end up losing Rockstar money after development costs and the legal costs after Microsoft sues them or they negotiate a price to get out of the contract. So please, stop banging on about it, it isn't going to happen.

For your last point, GTA was originally on PC/PS, but PC sold the most copies I believe.


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PabloHoneyOle
post Feb 16 2009, 04:45 PM
Post #39


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Don't FUCK with the Duffman.
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Psy
post Feb 16 2009, 06:40 PM
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I have no intention of sucking up to Rockstar. When they make mistakes I let them know about it. Especially with the PC version of GTA4. I'm guessing their webmaster saw my facebook status completely ripping the game and within an hour or two, we all received emails from R* saying they were working on the issues. No amount of free stuff is going to stop me speaking my mind. Even in the San Andreas days I posted negative stuff about game delays and what not, but if you've all been here that long you'll know about that anyway. So don't worry, it's still a fansite run by me, not run by Rockstar through me.


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Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 16th September 2014 - 03:30 PM

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