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> Bloody liberals..., could be a R&R
gingergenius
post May 9 2008, 05:43 PM
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Those of you who've been here a while will know me as a 'raving socialist' or a 'bleeding heart liberal'. But really, I find liberals fucking annoying at times. Here's why - if you're daunted by how long it is then don't bother, but don't reply either:

1. They harp on and on about civil liberties. In general, I agree with them - it's ridiculous that we can no longer protest in front of parliament... but they then make their videos of them being arrested for doing nothing but a peaceful protest. Yes, I feel sorry for them. But the way they act, all put upon and everything, they just look so weak. Peaceful protest doesn't do shit, a few hundred of them moaning about Iraq are quite right to do so but it won't get them anywhere. Hundreds of thousands of people protested against the Iraq war and it still went ahead. No one's going to do anything about the draconian laws, we've seen the footage of a lifelong Labour party member get abused for heckling Tony Blair, and no one's done shit about it. No one cares enough. The same with ID cards and CCTV. To be honest, I think they're a waste of money. I don't think they'll reduce terrorism in any way. But if they were implemented, I wouldn't really care too much. Yeah we can go on about how many hospital beds we could have bought and stuff like that, but at the end of the day there's millions of us, I can't imagine anyone in the government is such of a nerd as to look into my life to see exactly what I've been doing. And what if they do? I've broken a few laws, mainly to do with drugs, but none serious enough to warrant the attention of anyone more important than an ordinary cop. I couldn't care less if my details were recorded by the government; no one's going to do anything with them.

2. They're obsessed with principles. Free Speech. Human Rights. Democracy. Etc. They're under the impression that these are the be all and end all. Now, I'm a fan of democracy in that it's the fairest system of government, other than anarchy which I don't think would work without a coercive state, which wouldn't be anarchic... anyway, democracy has huge flaws. The Labour Government here was elected by just 1 in 5 Britons. The media gives coverage to only 2 and a half parties and so they're the only ones who really win any votes. I could go on. People denounce the likes of Chavez and Castro as crackpot dictators on the principle that they don't fit the mould of Western Liberal Democracy. They never seem to consider that they may actually run their countries quite well. I've been to Oman, where they have a Sultan who's been in charge since he took power off his father in the 70s. Sound like a typical tyrant? I've never met a people more happy with their government. He's brought prosperity to the country, relaxed Islamic laws and so on. Democracy isn't always the best system. The same applies for multiculturalism. Call me pessimistic, but I can only see people of different ethnic/ religious backgrounds getting on with each other in developed Western countries. This is because these countries have sufficient education systems for people to realise that all humans are the same, and even in the UK/ USA/ France relations can become tense. I went to a nursery which was 50% black, my first friend in primary school was mixed race and my school now is 50% non-white. The result: I don't have a problem with foreigners. My dad still talks to foreigners in a funny accent. Look at Africa, Middle East... anywhere... different people don't get on. Also, in the West we've become so obsessed with integrating minorities, a fantastic thing, but it pushes racism under the surface. If you listen to hiphop, you're called a wigger. If you wear tracksuits, you're called either the snobbish term 'chav' or 'gangsta'. The number if people I want to punch because they hear a rapper and go 'it's not music' is incredible. These are people who would never be considered intolerant, yet they are, it's just less obvious. And this is your standard 'non-racist' British person. Take this into feminism and people think it's fine because after all, we're all born equal. No. A woman must work and then, in most families, go home and do housework which she isn't even paid for. Our capitalist outlook is based on a form of Social Darwinism. The best reach the top.... but the best are judged by male traits such as aggression and will, and we know from scientific studies that from an early age boys and girls are very different psychologically. According to a liberal, as long as women aren't restricted in their life then it's fine. Bollocks. They're restricted culturally, in the private sphere, which has nothing to do with what laws are set.

3. People talk now of the economy. If Britain's economy (or indeed anyone else's) is doing well, then everything's good, the government must be doing a great job. We measure everything by the economy. But it doesn't mean that much. Our economy's been great for the last 10 years; how's our standard of living been? It's all good these massive companies making £££s. Too bad it goes towards some shareholder's Mercedes and private school fees. The happiest countries in the world - which are the Nordic/ North European countries - have small economies compared to the major powers. But they manage to work a system where there is not nearly such a gap between rich and poor - which the free market accentuates - and everyone is happier for it. The 'trickle down effect' is more of a slow drip than a trickle.
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Skinny†
post May 14 2008, 01:03 PM
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QUOTE(gingergenius @ May 10 2008, 03:43 AM) [snapback]1433071[/snapback]
Those of you who've been here a while will know me as a 'raving socialist' or a 'bleeding heart liberal'. But really, I find liberals fucking annoying at times. Here's why - if you're daunted by how long it is then don't bother, but don't reply either:

1. They harp on and on about civil liberties. In general, I agree with them - it's ridiculous that we can no longer protest in front of parliament... but they then make their videos of them being arrested for doing nothing but a peaceful protest. Yes, I feel sorry for them. But the way they act, all put upon and everything, they just look so weak. Peaceful protest doesn't do shit, a few hundred of them moaning about Iraq are quite right to do so but it won't get them anywhere.

While I agree it's pointless it's all they really can do after 9/11. If they turned violent they would most likley be called a threat to national security and shot or gassed, anything else and the government will turn it into something that helps their propaganda. I remember in Sydney a few years ago someone painted 'No War' on the Opera House (that apparently increased security after 9/11) and that was something that had a strong political message but the governments replied with 'THAT COULD HAVE BEEN A BOMB, SECURITY IS USELESS SHOOT MORE IRAQIS' and people quickly disregaurded the message it had and went on living in fear of terrorism.

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I can't imagine anyone in the government is such of a nerd as to look into my life to see exactly what I've been doing. And what if they do? I've broken a few laws, mainly to do with drugs, but none serious enough to warrant the attention of anyone more important than an ordinary cop. I couldn't care less if my details were recorded by the government; no one's going to do anything with them.
It's pretty stupid either way since government and commercial satalites can pretty much see anything, anywhere anyway so they are a pretty big waste of money.

As for the privacy part of the argument, who the fuck cares if they see you picking your nose. It's not like they're trying to put them in your bathroom...

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The media gives coverage to only 2 and a half parties and so they're the only ones who really win any votes.


Plus if voting is optional like in your country and the US only the middle-upper bother to vote. Let's say half the people in America vote and 40% of voters voted for George Bush, that would mean only twenty percent of Americans wanted Bush in office that means that America has a president that roughly 80% of the country doesn't want. What wonderful Plutocracies some people live in.

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The number if people I want to punch because they hear a rapper and go 'it's not music' is incredible. These are people who would never be considered intolerant, yet they are, it's just less obvious. And this is your standard 'non-racist' British person.
Oath.

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Passionate Homo ...
post May 14 2008, 08:44 PM
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While I agree with most of what you said, I identify myself as broadly and vaguely liberal and engage in very little of the above triviality. Least of all the dual pillars of democracy and economy, both of which I've always associated with conservative libertarianism. Worthy as this rant might be, it's not very acutely titled.

This post has been edited by Amarillo Suave: May 14 2008, 08:45 PM


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Bain
post May 15 2008, 02:37 AM
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In general (I didnt read it all) this is the type of shit I used to talk about here all the time......


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gingergenius
post May 15 2008, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE(Amarillo Suave @ May 14 2008, 09:44 PM) [snapback]1435894[/snapback]
While I agree with most of what you said, I identify myself as broadly and vaguely liberal and engage in very little of the above triviality. Least of all the dual pillars of democracy and economy, both of which I've always associated with conservative libertarianism. Worthy as this rant might be, it's not very acutely titled.


thought it might get more views than 'ginger's rant on everything which can be vaguely tagged as liberalism'
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TommyVercettiPiz...
post May 16 2008, 11:24 PM
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QUOTE(8 Ball @ May 14 2008, 02:03 PM) [snapback]1435647[/snapback]
Plus if voting is optional like in your country and the US only the middle-upper bother to vote. Let's say half the people in America vote and 40% of voters voted for George Bush, that would mean only twenty percent of Americans wanted Bush in office that means that America has a president that roughly 80% of the country doesn't want. What wonderful Plutocracies some people live in.

If 60% of people couldn't even be bothered to vote in an election they were entitled to vote in, they have no right to complain about who gets elected. If those 60% really didn't want Bush to be President they would have voted AGAINST him; the fact they didn't vote at all shows they couldn't care less!

Although I do agree with you if you're saying that more people should vote.....

This post has been edited by Starkey: May 16 2008, 11:26 PM
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Skinny†
post May 17 2008, 01:27 PM
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QUOTE(Starkey @ May 17 2008, 09:24 AM) [snapback]1437052[/snapback]
they couldn't care less!

Yes, because they're shit pour and are busy trying to feed their family...


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gingergenius
post May 17 2008, 04:05 PM
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QUOTE(8 Ball @ May 17 2008, 02:27 PM) [snapback]1437203[/snapback]
QUOTE(Starkey @ May 17 2008, 09:24 AM) [snapback]1437052[/snapback]
they couldn't care less!

Yes, because they're shit pour and are busy trying to feed their family...



IMO voting is a very easy thing to forget about. In the UK it takes place on a Thursday. I don't have time in the morning to do it, and I have to make a detour on my way home. If you're not interested in politics/ too busy/ really tired/ lazy then you're not going to make that detour. Hence no vote. It's more the effort required to vote rather than the process itself which decreases turnout.

I personally would make voting compulsory, like it is in Australia. But I'd add an 'abstention' box to the ballot paper. But at least people will have made the effort to have voted. It should also take place on Saturdays, when most people are not at work and therefore have time to vote.
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psychÝ
post May 17 2008, 04:49 PM
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The same with ID cards and CCTV. To be honest, I think they're a waste of money. I don't think they'll reduce terrorism in any way. But if they were implemented, I wouldn't really care too much.
You realise you are going to have to pay 100+ pounds for an ID card that you don't have to carry on you making it pointless, they should just make everyone get passports at least that has a use.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ May 17 2008, 05:05 PM) [snapback]1437245[/snapback]

QUOTE(8 Ball @ May 17 2008, 02:27 PM) [snapback]1437203[/snapback]
QUOTE(Starkey @ May 17 2008, 09:24 AM) [snapback]1437052[/snapback]
they couldn't care less!

Yes, because they're shit pour and are busy trying to feed their family...



IMO voting is a very easy thing to forget about. In the UK it takes place on a Thursday. I don't have time in the morning to do it, and I have to make a detour on my way home. If you're not interested in politics/ too busy/ really tired/ lazy then you're not going to make that detour. Hence no vote. It's more the effort required to vote rather than the process itself which decreases turnout.

More to the point, my mate was like have you voted yet, I just said no, what is the point in voting if you don't know what they stand for, it isn't that I don't care it is just I have no idea what any of them are going to do.

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The same applies for multiculturalism. Call me pessimistic, but I can only see people of different ethnic/ religious backgrounds getting on with each other in developed Western countries.
The idea of multiculturalism will never work that well, you know why, because different cultures categorically disagree with each other, how are you supposed to get on well if 2 major items of your cultures clash.

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People talk now of the economy. If Britain's economy (or indeed anyone else's) is doing well, then everything's good, the government must be doing a great job. We measure everything by the economy. But it doesn't mean that much.
Yes it really does mean everything, it means less people are unemployed so more money is in circulation therefore more people have a better standard of living, less goes on benefits so it can go on improving worthwhile services, which therefore improve efficiency and peoples standard of living.

For instance if a hospital can afford a new machine that may mean that someones condition is diagnosed quicker so they get better quicker and can go back to work quicker, both their standard of living is better and the economy is more efficient.

Well that is the idea anyway, sometimes money just get thrown away on ideas that were rubbish in the first place, such as renaming departments of government, who really gives a fuck what it is called I had never heard of it anyway and it is still doing the same thing.

Oh and learn to use paragraphs and I might actually bother to read it rather than just looking at the bits after the bold words.


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Skinny†
post May 17 2008, 05:15 PM
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QUOTE(psychÝ @ May 18 2008, 02:49 AM) [snapback]1437259[/snapback]
QUOTE
The same applies for multiculturalism. Call me pessimistic, but I can only see people of different ethnic/ religious backgrounds getting on with each other in developed Western countries.
The idea of multiculturalism will never work that well, you know why, because different cultures categorically disagree with each other, how are you supposed to get on well if 2 major items of your cultures clash.

People seem to have the idea that people of diffrent ethnic backgrounds will never fully get along and racism will always be present in our communities and that that's the way it's always been. That's wrong. In ancient rome there was no evidence to suggest that nationality was any facor in life.


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psychÝ
post May 17 2008, 05:34 PM
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QUOTE(8 Ball @ May 17 2008, 06:15 PM) [snapback]1437268[/snapback]
QUOTE(psychÝ @ May 18 2008, 02:49 AM) [snapback]1437259[/snapback]
QUOTE
The same applies for multiculturalism. Call me pessimistic, but I can only see people of different ethnic/ religious backgrounds getting on with each other in developed Western countries.
The idea of multiculturalism will never work that well, you know why, because different cultures categorically disagree with each other, how are you supposed to get on well if 2 major items of your cultures clash.

People seem to have the idea that people of diffrent ethnic backgrounds will never fully get along and racism will always be present in our communities and that that's the way it's always been. That's wrong. In ancient rome there was no evidence to suggest that nationality was any facor in life.

Lol in ancient Rome half the people were slaves........................that really was the worst example ever, plus then there is the fact that I never said racism will always be present, I wasn't even talking about race, I was talking about culture.


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Skinny†
post May 19 2008, 10:11 AM
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QUOTE(psychÝ @ May 18 2008, 03:34 AM) [snapback]1437276[/snapback]
Lol in ancient Rome half the people were slaves........................that really was the worst example ever, plus then there is the fact that I never said racism will always be present, I wasn't even talking about race, I was talking about culture.

Funny how I wasn't arguing with you, just using your post to say something but you had to get sarcastic and turn it into a dick meassuring contest. You're one insecure little boy...

So what if half the people were slaves? The slaves were of all diffrent races. Anyone of any nationality could be a roman citizen and anyone could be a slave, so it's really not the worst example ever. You may want to learn what the fuck you are talking about (always love saying that to you psyches).

Also psycho, isn't it supposed to be three periods when continuing a sentence? Not fucking twenty you illiterate hick...


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psychÝ
post May 20 2008, 12:34 AM
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QUOTE(8 Ball @ May 19 2008, 11:11 AM) [snapback]1438145[/snapback]
QUOTE(psychÝ @ May 18 2008, 03:34 AM) [snapback]1437276[/snapback]
Lol in ancient Rome half the people were slaves........................that really was the worst example ever, plus then there is the fact that I never said racism will always be present, I wasn't even talking about race, I was talking about culture.


So what if half the people were slaves? The slaves were of all diffrent races. Anyone of any nationality could be a roman citizen and anyone could be a slave, so it's really not the worst example ever. You may want to learn what the fuck you are talking about (always love saying that to you psyches).
I fail to see your point, you are comparing a society which was completely different with one now, information compare that of today's society would be defined as sketchy at best, is there any difference between racism and defining people by class, I think not.

QUOTE
Also psycho, isn't it supposed to be three periods when continuing a sentence?

No and if it is who really gives a shit, really at least try and make a relevant point, even if it is a bunch of crap in reality.


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Skinny†
post May 20 2008, 05:39 AM
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QUOTE(psychÝ @ May 20 2008, 10:34 AM) [snapback]1438514[/snapback]
I fail to see your point, you are comparing a society which was completely different with one now, information compare that of today's society would be defined as sketchy at best, is there any difference between racism and defining people by class, I think not.

I'm just saying people haven't always been racist.

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Also psycho, isn't it supposed to be three periods when continuing a sentence?

No and if it is who really gives a shit, really at least try and make a relevant point, even if it is a bunch of crap in reality.


I was just wondering why you feel the need talk like this:

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