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> capital punishment in the UK, views?
Severus Snape
post Apr 2 2008, 05:35 PM
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So you really are saying you would rather kill innocent people just to make sure you get the ones that actually did it.
No. I am just saying that mistakes happen. I would rather not kill innocent people, but unfortunately it happens. The only way to completely prevent innocent people from being killed by the death penalty is to abolish the death penalty. But I can't condone that course of action.

QUOTE
That isn't a contradiction he is saying people should be given the sentence, but if they have some miraculous long term change in mind then that sentence maybe altered.

Sounded like a contradiction to me, but thanks for clarifying what was meant. But even your clarification gives credence to a statement I made earlier about the appeals process. Everyone in the prison system has the option and opportunity to appeal the decision made on their case, which includes appealing the sentencing. Does the appeals process always work? No. But then again, the initial trial doesn't work all the time either.


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Sharpie Fetish
post Apr 2 2008, 05:46 PM
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Why did they still execute tookie williams ? Because he'd already fucking done it

There are 1 or 2 reasons he wrote those books and w/e
1. to save his own skin and try to get him out of being executed
2. Because he recognised he had done bad and wanted to keep kids who could do that shit off it

Either way both reasons still mean Hes done it and should be punished
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gingergenius
post Apr 2 2008, 05:58 PM
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QUOTE(Recruit CyanTist @ Apr 2 2008, 06:46 PM) [snapback]1404602[/snapback]
Why did they still execute tookie williams ? Because he'd already fucking done it

There are 1 or 2 reasons he wrote those books and w/e
1. to save his own skin and try to get him out of being executed
2. Because he recognised he had done bad and wanted to keep kids who could do that shit off it

Either way both reasons still mean Hes done it and should be punished


Punished, yes. Killed, no.
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Sharpie Fetish
post Apr 2 2008, 06:18 PM
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By punished i ment killed He had still done it

perhaps upon hearing he was set for execution he may have done the first option

Its like never being a believer to a religion and then praying like hell on your deathbed

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psychÝ
post Apr 2 2008, 08:19 PM
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QUOTE(Recruit CyanTist @ Apr 2 2008, 07:18 PM) [snapback]1404618[/snapback]
Its like never being a believer to a religion and then praying like hell on your deathbed

Might as well cover all your bases.


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Samurai_tbag
post Apr 2 2008, 09:29 PM
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Personally, I'd rather see the criminal rot in prison for years. True retribution.


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Severus Snape
post Apr 3 2008, 11:56 AM
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QUOTE(Samurai_tbag @ Apr 2 2008, 04:29 PM) [snapback]1404722[/snapback]
Personally, I'd rather see the criminal rot in prison for years. True retribution.

So, in essence, you'd rather pay taxes to have some lowlife murderous scumbag sit in prison getting better treatment than the homeless, when in fact he should be put to death for his heinous crimes?


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gingergenius
post Apr 3 2008, 12:39 PM
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QUOTE(Arch Angel @ Apr 3 2008, 12:56 PM) [snapback]1404871[/snapback]
QUOTE(Samurai_tbag @ Apr 2 2008, 04:29 PM) [snapback]1404722[/snapback]
Personally, I'd rather see the criminal rot in prison for years. True retribution.

So, in essence, you'd rather pay taxes to have some lowlife murderous scumbag sit in prison getting better treatment than the homeless, when in fact he should be put to death for his heinous crimes?


There's no fact about it.

There's also the chance that the prisoner can actually do something worthwhile that homeless people don't do. Sewing up mailbags, license plates, and so on.

Can't you see the hypocrisy of your argument?

There's one thing that I'm surprised by... if murder is such heinous crime, why do you advocate the murder of a guy on death row? Like his victim he doesn't want to die, and it's being done against his will. All killing is wrong.
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Ulster_Niko
post Apr 3 2008, 01:26 PM
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QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 3 2008, 01:39 PM) [snapback]1404885[/snapback]
All killing is wrong.


That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation, don't you think? I'm sure most people would hang Osama Bin-Laden if he is ever caught, for example. Punishment should befit the crime, I'm not saying the death penalty shoud be used indiscriminately: but for the worst of crimes it's definately worth consideration.


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Severus Snape
post Apr 3 2008, 02:58 PM
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QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 3 2008, 07:39 AM) [snapback]1404885[/snapback]
There's also the chance that the prisoner can actually do something worthwhile that homeless people don't do. Sewing up mailbags, license plates, and so on.

If the prisoner were such a model citizen he/she wouldn't be in prison. Yes, they do work. But have you thought that maybe a homeless person doesn't have a job because they can't find one? Don't give me the "they should look harder" argument. Everyone knows that big businesses are being given tax breaks for outsourcing jobs to other countries. Tough to find a job when none exist.

And again, this goes to my statement about prison not being tough enough. They actually pay these guys who are working. They get food, shelter, exercise, and a paying job. Nice way to punish our killers.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 3 2008, 07:39 AM) [snapback]1404885[/snapback]
Can't you see the hypocrisy of your argument?

Where's the hypocrisy in wanting to punish criminals?

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 3 2008, 07:39 AM) [snapback]1404885[/snapback]
There's one thing that I'm surprised by... if murder is such heinous crime, why do you advocate the murder of a guy on death row? Like his victim he doesn't want to die, and it's being done against his will. All killing is wrong.

Spare us the bleeding heart liberal bullshit. Ask yourself this one question: If your only child was brutally killed by some lowlife for no reason, would you be able to forgive that person enough to not want them to face the death penalty?

This post has been edited by Arch Angel: Apr 3 2008, 03:00 PM


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gingergenius
post Apr 3 2008, 05:48 PM
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QUOTE(Ulster_Niko @ Apr 3 2008, 02:26 PM) [snapback]1404897[/snapback]
QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 3 2008, 01:39 PM) [snapback]1404885[/snapback]
All killing is wrong.


That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation, don't you think? I'm sure most people would hang Osama Bin-Laden if he is ever caught, for example. Punishment should befit the crime, I'm not saying the death penalty shoud be used indiscriminately: but for the worst of crimes it's definately worth consideration.


I wouldn't hang Osama bin Laden.

There is one thing that all humans have in common, from birth right up to the second before they die - they are alive. This is the most basic fact of human existence. The right to life is given to you by the fact that you are human. No one has the right to take this away.

A murderer has a motive to kill. He kills.

The US states of Texas, California etc. and elsewhere that practices capital punishment also have a motive to kill the murderer. They kill too.

Where's the difference? The hypocrisy in your argument, AA, is that you advocate the killing of a human as a suitable punishment for someone who has killed a human.
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Severus Snape
post Apr 3 2008, 06:04 PM
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QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 3 2008, 12:48 PM) [snapback]1404995[/snapback]
Where's the difference? The hypocrisy in your argument, AA, is that you advocate the killing of a human as a suitable punishment for someone who has killed a human.

As opposed to your argument, which is basically to give them a medal and put them in a minimum security day spa like Martha Stewart. Again, spare us the liberal bleeding heart bullshit.

I won't argue that taking a life is wrong. But how are we to punish those that have killed? By giving them food, shelter, exercise, and a paying job? On our tax dollars? That is not an acceptable form of punishment. And let's not forget that there are some people so vile, so evil and vicious, that the death penalty is the only way to stop them from killing again and again. Or would you rather these serial killers live free in society?


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Samurai_tbag
post Apr 3 2008, 10:07 PM
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QUOTE(Arch Angel @ Apr 3 2008, 12:56 PM) [snapback]1404871[/snapback]
QUOTE(Samurai_tbag @ Apr 2 2008, 04:29 PM) [snapback]1404722[/snapback]
Personally, I'd rather see the criminal rot in prison for years. True retribution.

So, in essence, you'd rather pay taxes to have some lowlife murderous scumbag sit in prison getting better treatment than the homeless, when in fact he should be put to death for his heinous crimes?

I don't care where my taxes go, they're not going to be lowered, if anything they'll just be put into another area (health services, schools, etc...).

Also, I don't use public services, so it wouldn't bother me if all my tax was going to incarcerating criminals, I'd rather see justice than more unemployed chavs living off the state.


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gingergenius
post Apr 3 2008, 10:31 PM
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QUOTE(Arch Angel @ Apr 3 2008, 07:04 PM) [snapback]1405000[/snapback]
QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 3 2008, 12:48 PM) [snapback]1404995[/snapback]
Where's the difference? The hypocrisy in your argument, AA, is that you advocate the killing of a human as a suitable punishment for someone who has killed a human.

As opposed to your argument, which is basically to give them a medal and put them in a minimum security day spa like Martha Stewart. Again, spare us the liberal bleeding heart bullshit.

I won't argue that taking a life is wrong. But how are we to punish those that have killed? By giving them food, shelter, exercise, and a paying job? On our tax dollars? That is not an acceptable form of punishment. And let's not forget that there are some people so vile, so evil and vicious, that the death penalty is the only way to stop them from killing again and again. Or would you rather these serial killers live free in society?


what's wrong with you?

How are we to punish those who have killed? Put them in prison. That's what happens in civilised countries... The spend the rest of their lives in prison, which are horrible places, and it's a worthwhile punishment. You make it out like prison is the same as a youth hostel. It's not. Apart from what I said before, they're overcrowded and full of rats, disease etc. If you call giving them a bucket, a thin matress, shit food and a roof over their heads shelter then sobeit, but it's hardly living the high life.

If you agree that taking a life is wrong I can't see where you're going with this..
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J-Mi
post Apr 3 2008, 11:12 PM
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hang about, everyone is totally off topic!!
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BIG FUCKING SPID...
post Apr 3 2008, 11:43 PM
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QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 3 2008, 11:31 PM) [snapback]1405106[/snapback]
QUOTE(Arch Angel @ Apr 3 2008, 07:04 PM) [snapback]1405000[/snapback]
QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 3 2008, 12:48 PM) [snapback]1404995[/snapback]
Where's the difference? The hypocrisy in your argument, AA, is that you advocate the killing of a human as a suitable punishment for someone who has killed a human.

As opposed to your argument, which is basically to give them a medal and put them in a minimum security day spa like Martha Stewart. Again, spare us the liberal bleeding heart bullshit.

I won't argue that taking a life is wrong. But how are we to punish those that have killed? By giving them food, shelter, exercise, and a paying job? On our tax dollars? That is not an acceptable form of punishment. And let's not forget that there are some people so vile, so evil and vicious, that the death penalty is the only way to stop them from killing again and again. Or would you rather these serial killers live free in society?


what's wrong with you?

How are we to punish those who have killed? Put them in prison. That's what happens in civilised countries... The spend the rest of their lives in prison, which are horrible places, and it's a worthwhile punishment. You make it out like prison is the same as a youth hostel. It's not. Apart from what I said before, they're overcrowded and full of rats, disease etc. If you call giving them a bucket, a thin matress, shit food and a roof over their heads shelter then sobeit, but it's hardly living the high life.

If you agree that taking a life is wrong I can't see where you're going with this..

Have you seen the British Prisons? Overcrowded, yes so how do they solve it? Put the Criminals bunched up together in a cell? No, they release one early to make room! For good behaviour they get SKY+, Playstations, Televisions Ect. These people are Rapists, murderers and they are getting to live the high life which some poor yet law abiding citizen cannot afford, it is total lunacy. These people are SCUM, and are rewarded to an extent for it!

This post has been edited by BIG FUCKING SPIDER: Apr 3 2008, 11:44 PM
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gingergenius
post Apr 4 2008, 08:24 AM
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QUOTE(BIG FUCKING SPIDER @ Apr 4 2008, 12:43 AM) [snapback]1405177[/snapback]
QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 3 2008, 11:31 PM) [snapback]1405106[/snapback]
QUOTE(Arch Angel @ Apr 3 2008, 07:04 PM) [snapback]1405000[/snapback]
QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 3 2008, 12:48 PM) [snapback]1404995[/snapback]
Where's the difference? The hypocrisy in your argument, AA, is that you advocate the killing of a human as a suitable punishment for someone who has killed a human.

As opposed to your argument, which is basically to give them a medal and put them in a minimum security day spa like Martha Stewart. Again, spare us the liberal bleeding heart bullshit.

I won't argue that taking a life is wrong. But how are we to punish those that have killed? By giving them food, shelter, exercise, and a paying job? On our tax dollars? That is not an acceptable form of punishment. And let's not forget that there are some people so vile, so evil and vicious, that the death penalty is the only way to stop them from killing again and again. Or would you rather these serial killers live free in society?


what's wrong with you?

How are we to punish those who have killed? Put them in prison. That's what happens in civilised countries... The spend the rest of their lives in prison, which are horrible places, and it's a worthwhile punishment. You make it out like prison is the same as a youth hostel. It's not. Apart from what I said before, they're overcrowded and full of rats, disease etc. If you call giving them a bucket, a thin matress, shit food and a roof over their heads shelter then sobeit, but it's hardly living the high life.

If you agree that taking a life is wrong I can't see where you're going with this..

Have you seen the British Prisons? Overcrowded, yes so how do they solve it? Put the Criminals bunched up together in a cell? No, they release one early to make room! For good behaviour they get SKY+, Playstations, Televisions Ect. These people are Rapists, murderers and they are getting to live the high life which some poor yet law abiding citizen cannot afford, it is total lunacy. These people are SCUM, and are rewarded to an extent for it!


If you got that from the daily mail then fine, believe everything you read. You really think murderers get released into nice big houses with Playstations? The ones who maybe do get released are the ones who have been convicted of robbery or more minor crimes; and the ones who appear to have reformed. Anyway, do you realise how hard it is for someone with previous to get a job? Far from living the high life, they'll do well not to be pushed back into a life of crime by poverty.
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Severus Snape
post Apr 4 2008, 11:56 AM
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QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 4 2008, 03:24 AM) [snapback]1405364[/snapback]
Far from living the high life, they'll do well not to be pushed back into a life of crime by poverty.

This is the only sentence of yours that I feel compelled to respond to. You don't advocate using the death penalty, which is cool. But by your own admission here, criminals are more likely to commit another crime once they are released from prison. You release a killer, he is more likely to kill again. Stuffing these people into prisons that are already overcrowded is not the answer, and they don't belong on the street. So then what are we to do with them, gigi?


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Skinny†
post Apr 4 2008, 04:02 PM
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QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 4 2008, 04:48 AM) [snapback]1404995[/snapback]
QUOTE(Ulster_Niko @ Apr 3 2008, 02:26 PM) [snapback]1404897[/snapback]
QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 3 2008, 01:39 PM) [snapback]1404885[/snapback]
All killing is wrong.


That's a bit of a sweeping generalisation, don't you think? I'm sure most people would hang Osama Bin-Laden if he is ever caught, for example. Punishment should befit the crime, I'm not saying the death penalty shoud be used indiscriminately: but for the worst of crimes it's definately worth consideration.


I wouldn't hang Osama bin Laden.

There is one thing that all humans have in common, from birth right up to the second before they die - they are alive. This is the most basic fact of human existence. The right to life is given to you by the fact that you are human. No one has the right to take this away.

...and murders have taken this right from people, some have even tortured and raped them first. Fuck them, let them die. Why do you feel they deserve this right when they have taken it from other people?


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gingergenius
post Apr 4 2008, 04:30 PM
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QUOTE(Arch Angel @ Apr 4 2008, 12:56 PM) [snapback]1405425[/snapback]
QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 4 2008, 03:24 AM) [snapback]1405364[/snapback]
Far from living the high life, they'll do well not to be pushed back into a life of crime by poverty.

This is the only sentence of yours that I feel compelled to respond to. You don't advocate using the death penalty, which is cool. But by your own admission here, criminals are more likely to commit another crime once they are released from prison. You release a killer, he is more likely to kill again. Stuffing these people into prisons that are already overcrowded is not the answer, and they don't belong on the street. So then what are we to do with them, gigi?


Why is putting them in prison not the answer? And when did I say they had to be released...

Skinny, an eye for an eye will make the world blind.
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