IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> capital punishment in the UK, views?
J-Mi
post Apr 1 2008, 04:46 AM
Post #1


Upstanding Citizen


Group: Members
Posts: 0
Joined: 22-March 08
From: NE England
Member No.: 38,846



This is my second topic before I go to work. Does anyone think they should bring back capital punishment in this country? Why?
Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
psychÝ
post Apr 1 2008, 05:53 AM
Post #2


Upstanding Citizen


Group: Members
Posts: 0
Joined: 26-August 04
From: The Steel City, England
Member No.: 1,279



QUOTE(Politics and World issues board Guidelines)
If you copy and paste an article from a news source or other location then you must provide your own comment which provides significant contribution to the thread along with it. If you do not your post may be deleted and repeated offences will result in a ban from the political boards.

Without a person's opinion or reaction to the artice that they're posting, they're just spamming. I could go to CNN.com and grab all the headlines, post them here, and watch my post count rise. It's just copy and pasting. If I wanted news, I would go to a news site to get it


--------------------

Dragonfly
Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
J-Mi
post Apr 1 2008, 06:03 AM
Post #3


Upstanding Citizen


Group: Members
Posts: 0
Joined: 22-March 08
From: NE England
Member No.: 38,846



QUOTE(psychÝ @ Apr 1 2008, 06:53 AM) [snapback]1403935[/snapback]
QUOTE(Politics and World issues board Guidelines)
If you copy and paste an article from a news source or other location then you must provide your own comment which provides significant contribution to the thread along with it. If you do not your post may be deleted and repeated offences will result in a ban from the political boards.

Without a person's opinion or reaction to the artice that they're posting, they're just spamming. I could go to CNN.com and grab all the headlines, post them here, and watch my post count rise. It's just copy and pasting. If I wanted news, I would go to a news site to get it



what's that got to do with it?
Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Severus Snape
post Apr 1 2008, 12:05 PM
Post #4


Litterer


Group: Members
Posts: 53
Joined: 8-March 06
From: Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry
Member No.: 28,564



QUOTE(J-Mi @ Apr 1 2008, 01:03 AM) [snapback]1403938[/snapback]
QUOTE(psychÝ @ Apr 1 2008, 06:53 AM) [snapback]1403935[/snapback]
QUOTE(Politics and World issues board Guidelines)
If you copy and paste an article from a news source or other location then you must provide your own comment which provides significant contribution to the thread along with it. If you do not your post may be deleted and repeated offences will result in a ban from the political boards.

Without a person's opinion or reaction to the artice that they're posting, they're just spamming. I could go to CNN.com and grab all the headlines, post them here, and watch my post count rise. It's just copy and pasting. If I wanted news, I would go to a news site to get it



what's that got to do with it?

Everything. You can't just post a topic without giving your own opinion on the subject. According to your own post when you started this topic:

QUOTE
This is my second topic before I go to work. Does anyone think they should bring back capital punishment in this country? Why?


Your second topic. And none of your opinions on the subject. All you did was just ask if people think they should bring back capital punishment in the UK. How do YOU feel about it? What are YOUR thoughts?

Personally - I think capital punishment should be allowed in ALL countries. Not for stealing, or anything lame. But if you are found guilty of a heinous crime (murder 1, surprise sex 1, treason, etc.) you should have your flame extinguished. And yes - if I was facing the death penalty for something I did then I would suck it up and just go with it. I am not immune from the law, even if I break it intentionally.


--------------------
QUOTE (Massacre @ Mar 14 2011, 02:10 PM) *
We're more than capable of answering you, we're just not doing it because you're being a cunt, and it's you specifically we don't care about, we do care about the rest of the forums.


Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
gingergenius
post Apr 1 2008, 12:38 PM
Post #5


Upstanding Citizen


Group: Members
Posts: 0
Joined: 21-January 06
From: London, UK
Member No.: 27,536



QUOTE(Arch Angel @ Apr 1 2008, 01:05 PM) [snapback]1403994[/snapback]
QUOTE(J-Mi @ Apr 1 2008, 01:03 AM) [snapback]1403938[/snapback]
QUOTE(psychÝ @ Apr 1 2008, 06:53 AM) [snapback]1403935[/snapback]
QUOTE(Politics and World issues board Guidelines)
If you copy and paste an article from a news source or other location then you must provide your own comment which provides significant contribution to the thread along with it. If you do not your post may be deleted and repeated offences will result in a ban from the political boards.

Without a person's opinion or reaction to the artice that they're posting, they're just spamming. I could go to CNN.com and grab all the headlines, post them here, and watch my post count rise. It's just copy and pasting. If I wanted news, I would go to a news site to get it



what's that got to do with it?

Everything. You can't just post a topic without giving your own opinion on the subject. According to your own post when you started this topic:

QUOTE
This is my second topic before I go to work. Does anyone think they should bring back capital punishment in this country? Why?
Your second topic. And none of your opinions on the subject. All you did was just ask if people think they should bring back capital punishment in the UK. How do YOU feel about it? What are YOUR thoughts?

Personally - I think capital punishment should be allowed in ALL countries. Not for stealing, or anything lame. But if you are found guilty of a heinous crime (murder 1, surprise sex 1, treason, etc.) you should have your flame extinguished. And yes - if I was facing the death penalty for something I did then I would suck it up and just go with it. I am not immune from the law, even if I break it intentionally.


you say that now....

ok I'll bring up the argument that is blindingly obvious to bring up: what if the justice system is wrong? you can't get early release and compensation if you're dead.

other than this, look at Tookie Williams. A murderer, gangster and all of the rest. A nasty piece of work when he went on trial and thoroughly deserving of a long prison sentence. While waiting on death row, he not only repents but goes about actively trying to undo the wrongs of his past, writing books against gangsterism etc. Tookie Williams on the day of his death was a benefit to society. But he was still executed. Why?

A lot of murderers commit their crime when they're young. So they go to jail where they miss their best years, they have to live with dangerous people and they have no sex unless they're gay. They won't get out until they're at least middle aged, by which time they'll have missed the chance to either have a family or see it grow up. Long stretches in prison aren't simply opportunities to have a laugh with some bad boys, have fun escape ruses and educate yourself and work out a lot. They define the life of the prisoner. That's punishment enough, especially given the fact that death itself is a serious consideration for prisoners; look at prison suicide rates.

I agree there is a good case for capital punishment, but if you weigh up the facts then it's a really unworkable policy. It is morally and ethically unacceptable.
Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
BIG FUCKING SPID...
post Apr 1 2008, 04:14 PM
Post #6


Upstanding Citizen


Group: Members
Posts: 0
Joined: 25-March 05
From: Leeds
Member No.: 10,974



Tookie Williams was a piece of shit, he killed innocent people, help set up one of the worse Gangs in America, who cares if he "repented" by telling people not do what he did, he was still a murderer and deserved the Punishment he was given.
Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Severus Snape
post Apr 1 2008, 04:21 PM
Post #7


Litterer


Group: Members
Posts: 53
Joined: 8-March 06
From: Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry
Member No.: 28,564



QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
you say that now....

ok I'll bring up the argument that is blindingly obvious to bring up: what if the justice system is wrong? you can't get early release and compensation if you're dead.

No system is perfect, mistakes are going to be made. But you also cannot forget to use the rules that are in place just because you fear that a mistake may be made. That's exactly what has happened to the US lately - too many people afraid they'll screw something up, so let's not use the rules we have. And if you can't pay the price, then you shouldn't play the game.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
other than this, look at Tookie Williams. A murderer, gangster and all of the rest. A nasty piece of work when he went on trial and thoroughly deserving of a long prison sentence. While waiting on death row, he not only repents but goes about actively trying to undo the wrongs of his past, writing books against gangsterism etc. Tookie Williams on the day of his death was a benefit to society. But he was still executed. Why?

He was executed because he broke the law, and death was his penalty. Are you saying he should have been set free because he says he's sorry? That's a legal precedent that you don't want to start. Why? Because then everyone who commits a crime will have to be set free on the basis of "I'm sorry. I repented and should be forgiven for my crime, no matter how heinous."

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
A lot of murderers commit their crime when they're young. So they go to jail where they miss their best years, they have to live with dangerous people...

(I'm not dismissing the last portion - just leaving it out.) So what? If they screw up young, they miss the best years. Nobody complains when a retired person commits a crime and then misses retirement because they are incarcerated. Too bad. If you screw up, you pay. Doesn't matter when you screw up.

And it's not like they don't know what will happen to them if they break the law. We aren't hiding the consequences from these people.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
They won't get out until they're at least middle aged, by which time they'll have missed the chance to either have a family or see it grow up.

They shouldn't have broke the law, then. Boo fricking hoo.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
Long stretches in prison aren't simply opportunities to have a laugh with some bad boys, have fun escape ruses and educate yourself and work out a lot. They define the life of the prisoner.

Again, boo hoo. My heart bleeds peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for guys that fuck up and have to spend their entire lives behind bars. Someone call the wahmbulance.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
That's punishment enough, especially given the fact that death itself is a serious consideration for prisoners; look at prison suicide rates.

IMHO, not punishment enough. Bring back chain gangs. Put them to work. Enough lazing around smoking and doing push ups.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
I agree there is a good case for capital punishment, but if you weigh up the facts then it's a really unworkable policy. It is morally and ethically unacceptable.

You contradict yourself here. First there's a case for it, then you're against it. Which side of that fence did you say you were on?

This post has been edited by Arch Angel: Apr 1 2008, 04:22 PM


--------------------
QUOTE (Massacre @ Mar 14 2011, 02:10 PM) *
We're more than capable of answering you, we're just not doing it because you're being a cunt, and it's you specifically we don't care about, we do care about the rest of the forums.


Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ulster_Niko
post Apr 1 2008, 05:13 PM
Post #8


Upstanding Citizen


Group: Members
Posts: 1
Joined: 20-March 08
From: Northern Ireland
Member No.: 38,823



Prison should be a tough punishment but nowadays it simply isn't. Prisoners live in relative comfort. Yes, they do not get to see families, women, freedom etc but watching TV, working out is hardly an apt punishment for people who commit crimes of such magnitudes such as murder, rape, paedophilia etc. The most laughable evidence of the prison justice system failing is the young offenders institutes they now have. Some of the little fuck ups intentionally reoffend so they can play the Playstation again, and live a more comfortable life than they do at home.


--------------------
You'll Never Walk Alone

Liverpool FC
Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
gingergenius
post Apr 1 2008, 05:41 PM
Post #9


Upstanding Citizen


Group: Members
Posts: 0
Joined: 21-January 06
From: London, UK
Member No.: 27,536



QUOTE(Arch Angel @ Apr 1 2008, 05:21 PM) [snapback]1404055[/snapback]
QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
you say that now....

ok I'll bring up the argument that is blindingly obvious to bring up: what if the justice system is wrong? you can't get early release and compensation if you're dead.

No system is perfect, mistakes are going to be made. But you also cannot forget to use the rules that are in place just because you fear that a mistake may be made. That's exactly what has happened to the US lately - too many people afraid they'll screw something up, so let's not use the rules we have. And if you can't pay the price, then you shouldn't play the game.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
other than this, look at Tookie Williams. A murderer, gangster and all of the rest. A nasty piece of work when he went on trial and thoroughly deserving of a long prison sentence. While waiting on death row, he not only repents but goes about actively trying to undo the wrongs of his past, writing books against gangsterism etc. Tookie Williams on the day of his death was a benefit to society. But he was still executed. Why?

He was executed because he broke the law, and death was his penalty. Are you saying he should have been set free because he says he's sorry? That's a legal precedent that you don't want to start. Why? Because then everyone who commits a crime will have to be set free on the basis of "I'm sorry. I repented and should be forgiven for my crime, no matter how heinous."

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
A lot of murderers commit their crime when they're young. So they go to jail where they miss their best years, they have to live with dangerous people...

(I'm not dismissing the last portion - just leaving it out.) So what? If they screw up young, they miss the best years. Nobody complains when a retired person commits a crime and then misses retirement because they are incarcerated. Too bad. If you screw up, you pay. Doesn't matter when you screw up.

And it's not like they don't know what will happen to them if they break the law. We aren't hiding the consequences from these people.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
They won't get out until they're at least middle aged, by which time they'll have missed the chance to either have a family or see it grow up.

They shouldn't have broke the law, then. Boo fricking hoo.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
Long stretches in prison aren't simply opportunities to have a laugh with some bad boys, have fun escape ruses and educate yourself and work out a lot. They define the life of the prisoner.

Again, boo hoo. My heart bleeds peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for guys that fuck up and have to spend their entire lives behind bars. Someone call the wahmbulance.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
That's punishment enough, especially given the fact that death itself is a serious consideration for prisoners; look at prison suicide rates.

IMHO, not punishment enough. Bring back chain gangs. Put them to work. Enough lazing around smoking and doing push ups.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
I agree there is a good case for capital punishment, but if you weigh up the facts then it's a really unworkable policy. It is morally and ethically unacceptable.

You contradict yourself here. First there's a case for it, then you're against it. Which side of that fence did you say you were on?


Get some rhetorical skill.

You've spent time here going through my argument and analysing it. Good boy. Unfortunately you waste your time by being black & white (I never said you had to release Tookie Williams, just not to execute him); being presumptuous (by assuming me saying life imprisonment was a bad punishment means I think they're being punished too harshly); and then by being black and white again (there can be a good case for an argument without it being correct).

Apart from that, I'd challenge you to go to a prison and see how you like it. What with prison gangs, sexually frustrated men, a high concentration of people with few moral scruples and psychiatric problems, and all the rest I'm sure you'd love it. If you get a life sentence then you're looking at the majority of your life in a hellish environment. The only point in life is to enjoy yourself and make the most of it; if you've got the rest of your life being bullied, abused etc. then you might like to end it a bit sooner than it would anyway and spare yourself some pain...
Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
J-Mi
post Apr 1 2008, 05:46 PM
Post #10


Upstanding Citizen


Group: Members
Posts: 0
Joined: 22-March 08
From: NE England
Member No.: 38,846



QUOTE(Arch Angel @ Apr 1 2008, 01:05 PM) [snapback]1403994[/snapback]
QUOTE(J-Mi @ Apr 1 2008, 01:03 AM) [snapback]1403938[/snapback]
QUOTE(psychÝ @ Apr 1 2008, 06:53 AM) [snapback]1403935[/snapback]
QUOTE(Politics and World issues board Guidelines)
If you copy and paste an article from a news source or other location then you must provide your own comment which provides significant contribution to the thread along with it. If you do not your post may be deleted and repeated offences will result in a ban from the political boards.

Without a person's opinion or reaction to the artice that they're posting, they're just spamming. I could go to CNN.com and grab all the headlines, post them here, and watch my post count rise. It's just copy and pasting. If I wanted news, I would go to a news site to get it



what's that got to do with it?

Everything. You can't just post a topic without giving your own opinion on the subject. According to your own post when you started this topic:

QUOTE
This is my second topic before I go to work. Does anyone think they should bring back capital punishment in this country? Why?
Your second topic. And none of your opinions on the subject. All you did was just ask if people think they should bring back capital punishment in the UK. How do YOU feel about it? What are YOUR thoughts?

Personally - I think capital punishment should be allowed in ALL countries. Not for stealing, or anything lame. But if you are found guilty of a heinous crime (murder 1, surprise sex 1, treason, etc.) you should have your flame extinguished. And yes - if I was facing the death penalty for something I did then I would suck it up and just go with it. I am not immune from the law, even if I break it intentionally.


yea, sorry mate. im new. But I said it in the context that I think they should bring it back, because for the past 40 odd years or so nothing else has really worked at all.
Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mekstizzle
post Apr 1 2008, 05:50 PM
Post #11


Nobody Special
Group Icon

Group: Gold Member
Posts: 34
Joined: 2-January 05
From: London, England
Member No.: 7,717



Bring it back, but only for the worst crimes.
Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Severus Snape
post Apr 1 2008, 06:02 PM
Post #12


Litterer


Group: Members
Posts: 53
Joined: 8-March 06
From: Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry
Member No.: 28,564



QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 12:41 PM) [snapback]1404110[/snapback]
Get some rhetorical skill.

You've spent time here going through my argument and analysing it. Good boy. Unfortunately you waste your time by being black & white (I never said you had to release Tookie Williams, just not to execute him); being presumptuous (by assuming me saying life imprisonment was a bad punishment means I think they're being punished too harshly); and then by being black and white again (there can be a good case for an argument without it being correct).

Apart from that, I'd challenge you to go to a prison and see how you like it. What with prison gangs, sexually frustrated men, a high concentration of people with few moral scruples and psychiatric problems, and all the rest I'm sure you'd love it. If you get a life sentence then you're looking at the majority of your life in a hellish environment. The only point in life is to enjoy yourself and make the most of it; if you've got the rest of your life being bullied, abused etc. then you might like to end it a bit sooner than it would anyway and spare yourself some pain...

When it comes to punishment for breaking the law, it can only ever be black and white. You either accept your sentence or you don't. I am not saying that prisoners have to accept what they are in for in the prison system. I am only stating that they broke the law, they received a sentence, and like it or not they have to serve it. Even if that means being put to death.

Would I like prison? Hell no. I don't need to go to one to know it would suck. But if people don't want to go to prison, then they shouldn't fuck up. It's that simple. Don't fuck up and you won't go to prison. We aren't hiding the consequences from people. You know what happens if you kill someone. You go to jail, and in some states you face the silver, hollow sliver. People know that. If they don't want to face a life of abuse, bullies, etc., then don't kill/rob/torture/etc. someone.

As far as someone repenting and not having to die - did they think about that BEFORE they took someone else's life? Did Tookie, before he killed an innocent person, think "Geez - this person doesn't deserve to die. Maybe I shouldn't do this"? Probably not. If he had, then he wouldn't have killed this person. But he killed. And repenting won't get you anywhere with the state - especially if you show no remorse during your trial. And the jury saw fit to sentence him to death for his crimes. The fact that he repented and said he was sorry doesn't lessen his sentence, or take away from what he did. His punishment in this case was death. If he didn't like it, he could have gone through the proper appeals and such in an attempt to have his sentence reduced.

Again, by your logic someone who gets sentenced should be let off early and easy for saying "Oops - I made a mistake. Forgive me?". You're barking up the wrong tree with that argument, gigi. Let's put this into a perspective that you understand: Say, for example, YOU shoplifted something. (I'm not saying you did, this is a hypothetical situation). You get caught, and you are sentenced to 40 hours of community service. And your community service (you find out later) happens to be something that you absolutely hate and will scar you if you are forced to do it (I don't know what that is, so pick something you can't stand to do). At the same time, someone you know gets busted for shoplifting and gets 40 hours of community service. But this person says they are sorry, and that they should be forgiven, so they get let off with only doing 5 hours. Pissed yet? Cuz you would be seeing as you both got the same sentence for the same crime, but one of you got off early for saying "My bad!". Now apply this same logic to prisoners on death row.

Would you be willing to set that legal precedent? Would you be willing to look one prisoner in the eye and tell them their sentence is reduced for saying sorry, knowing full well that every prisoner out there in America (or wherever) will now be asking to be set free early because they are sorry too? Once you set the precedent, you can't take it back. Every prisoner now gets to go free for saying they were wrong.

Thoughts?


--------------------
QUOTE (Massacre @ Mar 14 2011, 02:10 PM) *
We're more than capable of answering you, we're just not doing it because you're being a cunt, and it's you specifically we don't care about, we do care about the rest of the forums.


Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
psychÝ
post Apr 1 2008, 07:07 PM
Post #13


Upstanding Citizen


Group: Members
Posts: 0
Joined: 26-August 04
From: The Steel City, England
Member No.: 1,279



QUOTE(Arch Angel @ Apr 1 2008, 05:21 PM) [snapback]1404055[/snapback]
QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
you say that now....

ok I'll bring up the argument that is blindingly obvious to bring up: what if the justice system is wrong? you can't get early release and compensation if you're dead.

No system is perfect, mistakes are going to be made. But you also cannot forget to use the rules that are in place just because you fear that a mistake may be made. That's exactly what has happened to the US lately - too many people afraid they'll screw something up, so let's not use the rules we have. And if you can't pay the price, then you shouldn't play the game.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
other than this, look at Tookie Williams. A murderer, gangster and all of the rest. A nasty piece of work when he went on trial and thoroughly deserving of a long prison sentence. While waiting on death row, he not only repents but goes about actively trying to undo the wrongs of his past, writing books against gangsterism etc. Tookie Williams on the day of his death was a benefit to society. But he was still executed. Why?

He was executed because he broke the law, and death was his penalty. Are you saying he should have been set free because he says he's sorry? That's a legal precedent that you don't want to start. Why? Because then everyone who commits a crime will have to be set free on the basis of "I'm sorry. I repented and should be forgiven for my crime, no matter how heinous."

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
A lot of murderers commit their crime when they're young. So they go to jail where they miss their best years, they have to live with dangerous people...

(I'm not dismissing the last portion - just leaving it out.) So what? If they screw up young, they miss the best years. Nobody complains when a retired person commits a crime and then misses retirement because they are incarcerated. Too bad. If you screw up, you pay. Doesn't matter when you screw up.

And it's not like they don't know what will happen to them if they break the law. We aren't hiding the consequences from these people.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
They won't get out until they're at least middle aged, by which time they'll have missed the chance to either have a family or see it grow up.

They shouldn't have broke the law, then. Boo fricking hoo.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
Long stretches in prison aren't simply opportunities to have a laugh with some bad boys, have fun escape ruses and educate yourself and work out a lot. They define the life of the prisoner.

Again, boo hoo. My heart bleeds peanut butter and jelly sandwiches for guys that fuck up and have to spend their entire lives behind bars. Someone call the wahmbulance.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
That's punishment enough, especially given the fact that death itself is a serious consideration for prisoners; look at prison suicide rates.

IMHO, not punishment enough. Bring back chain gangs. Put them to work. Enough lazing around smoking and doing push ups.

QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 07:38 AM) [snapback]1403999[/snapback]
I agree there is a good case for capital punishment, but if you weigh up the facts then it's a really unworkable policy. It is morally and ethically unacceptable.

You contradict yourself here. First there's a case for it, then you're against it. Which side of that fence did you say you were on?

You seem to have complete missed the point. What if they didn't break the law?

If they are dead, you can't go oh shit sorry about that, you can go now.


--------------------

Dragonfly
Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
gingergenius
post Apr 1 2008, 10:25 PM
Post #14


Upstanding Citizen


Group: Members
Posts: 0
Joined: 21-January 06
From: London, UK
Member No.: 27,536



QUOTE(Arch Angel @ Apr 1 2008, 07:02 PM) [snapback]1404129[/snapback]
QUOTE(gingergenius @ Apr 1 2008, 12:41 PM) [snapback]1404110[/snapback]
Get some rhetorical skill.

You've spent time here going through my argument and analysing it. Good boy. Unfortunately you waste your time by being black & white (I never said you had to release Tookie Williams, just not to execute him); being presumptuous (by assuming me saying life imprisonment was a bad punishment means I think they're being punished too harshly); and then by being black and white again (there can be a good case for an argument without it being correct).

Apart from that, I'd challenge you to go to a prison and see how you like it. What with prison gangs, sexually frustrated men, a high concentration of people with few moral scruples and psychiatric problems, and all the rest I'm sure you'd love it. If you get a life sentence then you're looking at the majority of your life in a hellish environment. The only point in life is to enjoy yourself and make the most of it; if you've got the rest of your life being bullied, abused etc. then you might like to end it a bit sooner than it would anyway and spare yourself some pain...

When it comes to punishment for breaking the law, it can only ever be black and white. You either accept your sentence or you don't. I am not saying that prisoners have to accept what they are in for in the prison system. I am only stating that they broke the law, they received a sentence, and like it or not they have to serve it. Even if that means being put to death.

Would I like prison? Hell no. I don't need to go to one to know it would suck. But if people don't want to go to prison, then they shouldn't fuck up. It's that simple. Don't fuck up and you won't go to prison. We aren't hiding the consequences from people. You know what happens if you kill someone. You go to jail, and in some states you face the silver, hollow sliver. People know that. If they don't want to face a life of abuse, bullies, etc., then don't kill/rob/torture/etc. someone.

As far as someone repenting and not having to die - did they think about that BEFORE they took someone else's life? Did Tookie, before he killed an innocent person, think "Geez - this person doesn't deserve to die. Maybe I shouldn't do this"? Probably not. If he had, then he wouldn't have killed this person. But he killed. And repenting won't get you anywhere with the state - especially if you show no remorse during your trial. And the jury saw fit to sentence him to death for his crimes. The fact that he repented and said he was sorry doesn't lessen his sentence, or take away from what he did. His punishment in this case was death. If he didn't like it, he could have gone through the proper appeals and such in an attempt to have his sentence reduced.

Again, by your logic someone who gets sentenced should be let off early and easy for saying "Oops - I made a mistake. Forgive me?". You're barking up the wrong tree with that argument, gigi. Let's put this into a perspective that you understand: Say, for example, YOU shoplifted something. (I'm not saying you did, this is a hypothetical situation). You get caught, and you are sentenced to 40 hours of community service. And your community service (you find out later) happens to be something that you absolutely hate and will scar you if you are forced to do it (I don't know what that is, so pick something you can't stand to do). At the same time, someone you know gets busted for shoplifting and gets 40 hours of community service. But this person says they are sorry, and that they should be forgiven, so they get let off with only doing 5 hours. Pissed yet? Cuz you would be seeing as you both got the same sentence for the same crime, but one of you got off early for saying "My bad!". Now apply this same logic to prisoners on death row.

Would you be willing to set that legal precedent? Would you be willing to look one prisoner in the eye and tell them their sentence is reduced for saying sorry, knowing full well that every prisoner out there in America (or wherever) will now be asking to be set free early because they are sorry too? Once you set the precedent, you can't take it back. Every prisoner now gets to go free for saying they were wrong.

Thoughts?


you've described exactly how the system (in the UK) works. ever heard the phrase 'let out early for good behaviour'?

anyway, it isn't the jury who decides the sentence. The jury's job is to decide whether the defendant is guilty or not guilty. The judge then decides on the sentence. In the UK, the judge applies statute law, preceding cases and his own judgement to decide on the length of the sentence of the guilty defendant. Judges are expected to make their decision in good faith, and showing remorse will get you a long way towards a reduced sentence. Think about it. You're a judge, you've got 2 youths both on trial for murdering someone. One, during the trial, is difficult, arrogant and shows no remorse of his actions. Another is quiet and looks genuinely remorseful of his actions. They're both convicted as guilty. The judge will nearly always give the arrogant youth a harsher punishment than the remorseful one. That's why if you plead guilty straightaway then you'll get a reduced sentence to if you had pleaded not guilty.

you may not like it, but I'm quite happy with the way the UK system works. The defendant has the right to trial by his peers. That's the jury. If they decide he's guilty, the judge, a man chosen because of his experience and wisdom, is free to sentence the defendant within the Law, and based on preceding legal cases, common law etc.

and there's a difference between saying sorry and actually meaning it. It's up to the judge to decide whether the defendant actually means it.
Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
psychÝ
post Apr 1 2008, 11:18 PM
Post #15


Upstanding Citizen


Group: Members
Posts: 0
Joined: 26-August 04
From: The Steel City, England
Member No.: 1,279



Wait, here a thing, if I kidnap someone in say Texas where the death penalty is allowed (but I assume not for kidnapping) and then drive to Arkansas and kill them which laws apply to which, could I be tried for murder in Texas or could I only be tried for kidnapping in Texas.

QUOTE
you've described exactly how the system (in the UK) works. ever heard the phrase 'let out early for good behaviour'
The only reason the UK system works that way is because there isn't enough prisons, it is a crap system, if they behave let them out their cell for an extra half hour a day, don't let them out all together.


--------------------

Dragonfly
Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Severus Snape
post Apr 2 2008, 11:58 AM
Post #16


Litterer


Group: Members
Posts: 53
Joined: 8-March 06
From: Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry
Member No.: 28,564



QUOTE
You seem to have complete missed the point. What if they didn't break the law?
psycho: Re-read my post. Mistakes are going to be made. It happens. But you cannot disregard the punishments just because you are afraid that a mistake is going to be made. I agree that it's a terrible thing when a truly innocent person gets put to death for a crime they didn't commit. But that shouldn't stop our judicial system from punishing criminals within the extent of the law.

QUOTE
Wait, here a thing, if I kidnap someone in say Texas where the death penalty is allowed (but I assume not for kidnapping) and then drive to Arkansas and kill them which laws apply to which, could I be tried for murder in Texas or could I only be tried for kidnapping in Texas.

psycho: I'm not a lawyer, but I believe you'd be tried for both crimes in Texas, and only the murder in Arkansas. But I'm guessing here, so don't take that as gospel.

QUOTE
you may not like it, but I'm quite happy with the way the UK system works. The defendant has the right to trial by his peers. That's the jury. If they decide he's guilty, the judge, a man chosen because of his experience and wisdom, is free to sentence the defendant within the Law, and based on preceding legal cases, common law etc.

GG: You just contradicted yourself here. First you state that people should be let off early for saying they are sorry, but now you are defending the judicial system for punishing criminals within the extent of the law. You are adamant that Tookie shouldn't have been put to death, but he was sentenced and punished within the extent of the law. You can't have this both ways. Pick a side and go with it.


--------------------
QUOTE (Massacre @ Mar 14 2011, 02:10 PM) *
We're more than capable of answering you, we're just not doing it because you're being a cunt, and it's you specifically we don't care about, we do care about the rest of the forums.


Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
FailSafe
post Apr 2 2008, 01:38 PM
Post #17


Upstanding Citizen


Group: Members
Posts: 1
Joined: 17-May 05
Member No.: 11,952



I agree with Psycho on one point ever heard of the story "let him have it", that was a total misunderstanding of words which ended up getting an innocent man hung. And i dont think mistakes should be made because thats someones life you end and everyone has a chance to life.

This post has been edited by FailSafe: Apr 2 2008, 01:40 PM


--------------------
Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Severus Snape
post Apr 2 2008, 02:34 PM
Post #18


Litterer


Group: Members
Posts: 53
Joined: 8-March 06
From: Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry
Member No.: 28,564



QUOTE(FailSafe @ Apr 2 2008, 08:38 AM) [snapback]1404525[/snapback]
I agree with Psycho on one point ever heard of the story "let him have it", that was a total misunderstanding of words which ended up getting an innocent man hung. And i dont think mistakes should be made because thats someones life you end and everyone has a chance to life.

That's what the appeals courts are for. Whether you're innocent or not, you have the option and opportunity to appeal your case before your execution. If you aren't taking advantage of that, then you deserve to be in jail.

Now, I have a couple things I would like to point out:

1. Not one person in here has asked "Well, what if they set a killer free?". Happens all the time. Someone really is guilty and the courts or the cops or whomever screws up and that person goes free. Nobody seems to think that's a major deal.
2. In the state of Wisconsin, we have had 2 of the biggest names in crime in our own backyard, and we don't have the death penalty. Jeffrey Dahmer and Ed Gein. But no death penalty? Please.
3. Also in Wisconsin, Steven Avery was in jail for a crime he didn't commit. He was eventually set free based on DNA evidence. He then KILLED an innocent woman for no apparent reason within 2 years of his release. How about that? An innocent man jailed, then freed, and then he commits a crime. How wonderful.

See, there are always going to be mistakes made no matter what. And mistakes are going to happen both ways. But again, you cannot stop punishing people for the fear that a mistake will be made. Thinking like that will only lead to another Dark Ages period.


--------------------
QUOTE (Massacre @ Mar 14 2011, 02:10 PM) *
We're more than capable of answering you, we're just not doing it because you're being a cunt, and it's you specifically we don't care about, we do care about the rest of the forums.


Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Austin
post Apr 2 2008, 04:04 PM
Post #19


Upstanding Citizen


Group: Members
Posts: 0
Joined: 2-August 04
From: Noord-Brabant, The Netherlands
Member No.: 141



only for extreme cases where there is not a shred of doubt that they committed it.. moors murders would be my definition of extreme.
Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
psychÝ
post Apr 2 2008, 04:18 PM
Post #20


Upstanding Citizen


Group: Members
Posts: 0
Joined: 26-August 04
From: The Steel City, England
Member No.: 1,279



QUOTE(Arch Angel @ Apr 2 2008, 12:58 PM) [snapback]1404502[/snapback]
QUOTE
You seem to have complete missed the point. What if they didn't break the law?
psycho: Re-read my post.
No, I read your post I presumed it was a mistake.

QUOTE
Mistakes are going to be made. It happens.
So you really are saying you would rather kill innocent people just to make sure you get the ones that actually did it.

QUOTE
QUOTE
Wait, here a thing, if I kidnap someone in say Texas where the death penalty is allowed (but I assume not for kidnapping) and then drive to Arkansas and kill them which laws apply to which, could I be tried for murder in Texas or could I only be tried for kidnapping in Texas.

psycho: I'm not a lawyer, but I believe you'd be tried for both crimes in Texas, and only the murder in Arkansas. But I'm guessing here, so don't take that as gospel.
Interesting, seems logical but surely that could get you off the death penalty, not really relevant but interesting.

QUOTE
QUOTE
you may not like it, but I'm quite happy with the way the UK system works. The defendant has the right to trial by his peers. That's the jury. If they decide he's guilty, the judge, a man chosen because of his experience and wisdom, is free to sentence the defendant within the Law, and based on preceding legal cases, common law etc.

GG: You just contradicted yourself here. First you state that people should be let off early for saying they are sorry, but now you are defending the judicial system for punishing criminals within the extent of the law.

That isn't a contradiction he is saying people should be given the sentence, but if they have some miraculous long term change in mind then that sentence maybe altered.


--------------------

Dragonfly
Achievements
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

3 Pages V   1 2 3 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 3rd September 2014 - 12:11 AM

GTA 5 | GTA San Andreas | Red Dead Redemption | GTA 4