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> Loose Change, A video that will change everything you thought about 9/11
Lord Steve0
post Dec 11 2005, 05:52 PM
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The physics lecturers and architects can say what they like, he turth is that not a person on this planet knew how such a big building would react when hit by a 100 tonne jumbo jet and be set alight by jet fuel. There were no previous similar incidents and there could be affects you can't recreate in models or easily predict. There could be lots of anomalies with the way the towers reacted, there is just no way to know.
No tower has ever collapsed through fire alone, yes.
But no tower has ever been hit by a jumbo jet and then been set on fire too.

About the loby being blown to bits. The fuel might not have been burning down there, but the pressure of the explosion might have done enough damage. And the marble on the walls falling off via a seismic event or something similar - how about a jumbo jet slamming into the tower? According to people the whole thing shook like you'd dropped a skip full of bricks on it, i'd say that alone would do some damage.
The dust could be from anywhere really, but i doubt it was from bombs, not on the ground floor. People would easily notice bombs going off down there i'd imagine.

The Pentagon is hard to decide on. There is so little evidence for anyones theories no matter how obscure or logical.
There were bit of plane, but i can't ID them and i doubt anyone could after the fires. THe hole is too small, yes. But maybe the plane broke up on impact and only bits of it went through the windows or a small hole. It did hit the ground as well, i'd guess some could have been burried too.
Ther point about it not being a misslie really is that it would be very easy to see, how do you hide that? I mean seriously are you telling me not a single person in Washington DC would notice a missile flying accross the sky? A lot of people saw a plane, nobody saw a missile. The evidence points very strongly to it being a plane.

I'd rather not discuss what weapons the US does or does not have. If you start assuming the US has a Mach 20 missile and used it on the Pentagon you may as well assume the twin towers were destroyed by a massive laser bean fired from space, because you're just pulling at straws.

The final point i'd like to make is that of WHY?
Can someone give a realistic reason of why the US would do this to itself. And make this reason be one that doesn't rely on you 1)hating the US government or being paranoid about it, 2)beliveing in a New World Order or some masonic plot to put humanity in missery, 3)it was done for oil (seriously there are better ways to get oil than this!), 4)it was done to start a war (again...easier ways to do this!).
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Samurai_tbag
post Dec 11 2005, 06:22 PM
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Yes, Bush wanted Sadam Hussein in jail, he wanted to finish his fathers job. Also starting a war on the eastern world fits Bush's agender, more control more money. The fact that it makes Bush seem like a hero "Starting a war on terror" the American people belive he is doing good, vote him into power. Vicious Circle


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Lord Steve0
post Dec 11 2005, 08:12 PM
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But how many of the US people actually think he is doing good? Do they really se him as a hero?
I seem to recal last election being nearlly 50.50 votewise, at least those who voted felt that way.
I really don't see any of his ideas and wars as the kind of action that makes him look like a hero.

The attacks on the US were a result of the US pissing off the Muslim world, through years of disrespect, abuse, and attempts at control. Sooner or later someone was going to be pissed enough to do something severe, and look what happened.
You can hardly be called a hero for saving your country from attacks he and previous governments indirectly caused.
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GTA_PlAyA_728
post Dec 11 2005, 10:30 PM
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QUOTE(Lord Steve0 @ Dec 11 2005, 03:50 PM) [snapback]1025765[/snapback]

But how many of the US people actually think he is doing good? Do they really se him as a hero?
I seem to recal last election being nearlly 50.50 votewise, at least those who voted felt that way.
I really don't see any of his ideas and wars as the kind of action that makes him look like a hero.

The attacks on the US were a result of the US pissing off the Muslim world, through years of disrespect, abuse, and attempts at control. Sooner or later someone was going to be pissed enough to do something severe, and look what happened.
You can hardly be called a hero for saving your country from attacks he and previous governments indirectly caused.


What da...? How did the previous governments cause all this? The only reason 9/11 and all the other attacks happened was because the US tried to help out during the gulf war. Thats the only reason why. Their were no problems between the US and the middle east until the gulf war started. and that was husseins fault.

The only disrespect the US ever made to the muslim world was that we had US troops on their land. They hate infidels. Thats the only reason why they attacked us. Now is that the governments fault when we had a alliance we had to keep? rolleyes.gif I dont think so.


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Qdeathstar
post Dec 11 2005, 11:10 PM
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Its funny how you people who come up with these bizzair theories never reply to the stongest posts .... pfft.

And btw, jetfuel is not kerosene... :-/


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Un-Amurikan Bast...
post Dec 12 2005, 12:13 AM
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I notice the size of the hole continues to come up...the hole was the right size. The actual fuselage of the plane is 14 feet in diameter, and the fuselage is what hit mainly; would that not produce a 16 foot hole, including the wings and other things? They did find chunks of the engines, which are visible in numerous photographs. This place tells all about the Pentagon part of the story.

QUOTE
What da...? How did the previous governments cause all this? The only reason 9/11 and all the other attacks happened was because the US tried to help out during the gulf war. Thats the only reason why. Their were no problems between the US and the middle east until the gulf war started. and that was husseins fault. rolleyes.gif The only disrespect the US ever made to the muslim world was that we had US troops on their land. They hate infidels. Thats the only reason why they attacked us. Now is that the governments fault when we had a alliance we had to keep? I dont think so.

Uh, he's right buddy.
QUOTE(Lord Steve0)
The attacks on the US were a result of the US pissing off the Muslim world, through years of disrespect, abuse, and attempts at control. Sooner or later someone was going to be pissed enough to do something severe, and look what happened.

The U.S. was making deals with the corrupt governments of the Middle East, and making contracts that funded dictators obviously leading to dissent of America among the people in the Middle East. That and the Gulf War were the main causes, not even counting the "turn the other ear" attitude the U.S. was using, and the attemps at power, and the U.S. alliance with Israel as it funded Isreal's wrongdoings and mistreatments of Muslims.

So yes, it is the governments fault for going to war against a dictator when he invaded a small country then bankrolling other dictators rather than setting up embargos. Yes, the first war was Hussein's fault, but it doesn't change that we were going after him.



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GTA_PlAyA_728
post Dec 12 2005, 01:51 AM
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What deals was this? Are you sure they werent making the deals at the time when they were allied? Cuz the US did have a lot of alliances with the middle east during and before the 70's.


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Un-Amurikan Bast...
post Dec 12 2005, 02:08 AM
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QUOTE(GTA_PlAyA_728 @ Dec 11 2005, 08:29 PM) [snapback]1026080[/snapback]

What deals was this? Are you sure they werent making the deals at the time when they were allied? Cuz the US did have a lot of alliances with the middle east during and before the 70's.

Various oil contracts through the 80's and 90's...and in the 80's we were supplying them with weapons and such. And the alliances you speak of were another thing they were pissed about, as again, that is helping and reinforcing their dictators.


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GTA_PlAyA_728
post Dec 12 2005, 02:39 AM
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QUOTE(Un-Amärakin Bastard @ Dec 11 2005, 09:46 PM) [snapback]1026090[/snapback]

QUOTE(GTA_PlAyA_728 @ Dec 11 2005, 08:29 PM) [snapback]1026080[/snapback]

What deals was this? Are you sure they werent making the deals at the time when they were allied? Cuz the US did have a lot of alliances with the middle east during and before the 70's.

Various oil contracts through the 80's and 90's...and in the 80's we were supplying them with weapons and such. And the alliances you speak of were another thing they were pissed about, as again, that is helping and reinforcing their dictators.


Ya well we were allied with Iraq in the 80's and got oil from them for weapons. China, france, and Russia did this to. We were allied with them and we broke the alliance when they invaded Kuwait. Then the US allied with Kuwait and Saudi Arabia in the 90's and we still have that alliance now.

So basically Iraq was the only bad country the US made deals with. And the only reason we ever made the alliance with them was for oil. Cuz we did have an oil crises in the late 70's. So we supported them in the war against Iran and they gave us oil. If we didnt do that our economy would still suck cuz of the oil crises.


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Fido 14
post Dec 12 2005, 04:42 AM
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You guys are still bickering about this? Not only is it known that the government knocked down the towers with a customized Boeing 767 and a missile to the pentagon, but there was also a UFO seen in pictures while the 9/11 attacks were happening. As I explain to you people how our government is actually a secret society of world domination seekers (Masons, ZOG, New World Order) that commited these hideous attacks, I'd also like to come to my conclusion that the U.S. has improved and made more UFO's since the Roswell incident on 1947 where they got information from the alien that crashed on how to make UFO's and the technology that is in them. What could they possibly need UFO's for? Spying on other countries and of course its own people. I also believe that they've been communicating with the alien that crashed at Roswell ever since, and our government is communicating with intergalactic invisible planets where the highest of all technology is. Now in this case, the government used one of their UFO's to check to see if the plans on 9/11 were going alright.

IPB Image
From the video that was certified by the CIA as "genuine" and which showed a fake Osama "confessing".

IPB Image
The 2nd remotely controlled plane just before it crashes into the WTC. Notice the odd shape under the fuselage, at the level of the wings.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...ont_display.jpg
Was the strange attachment on the plane actually an extra fuel tank filled with gasoline, for creating a big fire and huge media show? Such tanks can be seen on many army aircrafts, but have never been seen on a Boeing 767 which normally has no fittings (so called "hard points") to fix such a tank to. The tank could also have been a pod from which a missile was fired.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...lane_unders.jpg
How come a plane could have taken off without anyone noticing the odd extra tank/pod? How probable is it some foreign hijackers "customized" a Boeing 767 in this way for their purpose?

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/pod-from-below.jpg
This picture clearly shows that an odd asymetrical construction of some sort occurred under the plane's fuselage, and that what can be seen on the images is not just the curious result of light and shadows.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...rom_beneath.gif
And if any doubt was left, then this angle definitely shows a tank/pod was fitted under the 767.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...impact&fire.jpg
On impact, the tip of the 2nd plane seems to be on fire, which is highly abnormal. Was there somehow a detonation?

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/wtc_impact2.jpg
The 2nd remotely controlled plane crashes into the WTC. Two things are abnormal about this pict: 1) Planes usually don't explode this way (only in movies they do), unless some type of detonation method is used.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/wtc_crash.jpg
2) Since most of the kerosene (and gazoline from the tank) burned outside the building, as this picture shows, it's quite peculiar there was enough fuel to cause a fire hot enough to make the building's steel beams work enough to let the building fall down...

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/wtc_explosive.jpg
This image proves explosives were used to make the WTC buildings collapse. Notice the characteristic shape of an explosion at the right of the building, a bit below the big cloud of smoke. Yet if the fire made the steel beams or the construction around it snap, then this may well be what it would look like.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...-explosives.jpg
Like the previous picture, according to some these images from a video show lines of explosives were installed. However, notice that the top of the building already shows an inclination when the plumes occur. The inclination could not have been caused by explosives, if detonated at this point. Seismic data records indicate huge bursts of energy shook the ground beneath the WTC just before the towers collapsed. This too is seen by some as proof massive underground explosions occurred, but in fact it could well have been caused by the floors falling upon each other.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...ndplane+UFO.jpg
During the 2nd plane impact at the WTC, a UFO was filmed.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/wtc_ufo_zoom.jpg
Zoom of the WTC UFO.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...o_animation.gif
A pict animation of the UFO footage.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...g_no_impact.jpg
Pentagon burning but facade virtually intact. Also notice (again) the impeccable condition of the lawn...

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/..._727_tracks.jpg
Tracks of crashed FedEx boeing 727. This is how a lawn looks after a commercial airliner crashes on it.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/pent_fireball.jpg
A fireball at where allegedly the plane crashed.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/..._sec_camera.jpg
This is supposed to be the moment where the plane impacted into the Pentagon. Where is the plane?

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...roportions4.jpg
This is how big the plane would be if it would be put into the security camera image.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...a_composite.jpg
This is a rendition of the proportions in the picture.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...;crash'.jpg
The CIA tried to make us believe the plane crashed slightly off angle. Notice how the plane depicted has virtually NO WINGS! How convenient!

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...roportions1.jpg
This is how big the wings of the plane would really be.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...roportions2.jpg
This is how big the plane and its wings would really be. With impact angle of the CIA briefing.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...roportions3.jpg
This is another picture of how big the plane and its wings would really be. With impact angle of the CIA briefing.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/impact757-5.gif
Then there are those who suggest the wings of the 757 actually broke off at impact, therefore fitting the plane through the very small hole. This theory could make sense if only some broken wing (debris) would have been found at the outside of the building, and if the hole would have been higher.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...n_firetruck.jpg
There were simply no broken off wings to be found anywhere.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/trajectoire.jpg
This is the trajectory the alleged plane followed through the Pentagon. Down right of the image you see the small hole it made in the wall at the interior of the Pentagon.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...agefragment.jpg
Debris that seems to be fragments of the fuselage of a plane (its nose). In fact , this hole and the scarce debris may well be the only known proof that what crashed into the Pentagon was a cruise missile, made to look like a Boeing 757, and which would have a diameter that fits this hole which was made when the missile exited the building.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/global_hawk.jpg
The type of missile used could have been the Global Hawk.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...landinggear.jpg
This landing gear was found at the outside of the Pentagon. Is it from the Global Hawk? It looks very much like it, and it surely would be way too small for a Boeing 757.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/mainGear757.jpg
This is what the main landing gear of a Boeing 757 looks like. It doesn't quite look like what was found at the outside of the Pentagon.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...anewheelrim.jpg
This rim of a wheel that was found inside, however, looks very much like that of a Boeing 757. How did two completely different wheel models end up at the Pentagon "crash"? Was this one brought in aboard the missile? Was it planted there?

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...t_planetire.jpg
This tire seems to have less profile rings (4) than the 757 tires (which have 6).

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/photorotor.jpg
This seems to be a part of a jet engine. However, it's way too small for a Boeing 757 engine, but typically has the size of a missile engine. Oh, and why did they use a missile? Well, for its precision of course!

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/g-pw4000.jpg
The engines used by the Boeing 757 are similar to the Pratt and Whitney Turbofan engine seen in this picture, and have almost the same dimensions, being over two meters in diameter, more than twice the diameter of the engine shown in the previous picture.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...2_w_US_flag.jpg
A piece of wreckage with a US flag drawn on it. It's unclear from what type of vehicle this wreckage could have come. By the way, lest we forget: we're supposed to believe pratically the entire plane was burned to ashes, including metal, synthetic materials (often very fire resistant), etc... which only burn to ashes at extremely high temperatures. Yet "miraculously", the spit material was found of 63 out of 64 passengers, even though such material is the most likely to have been destroyed the first at such high temperatures.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...bri_on_lawn.jpg
This is practically the only debris that has been found at the exterior of the Pentagon. Was it planted there? Where is the rest of the plane? Or did this piece of debris come from the missile 757 lookalike?

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/debriswheel.jpg
This picture shows how big the piece of debris actually is. It's almost 1/2 the size it should be if it would come from a real 757.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/fit_debris.jpg
This picture shows how the piece can be fitted on an American Airlines plane, apart from its actual size that is.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...erpiececomp.jpg
These are some other ways the debris could be made to fit.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...or_of_slats.jpg
This debris has been confirmed to be a geared rotary actuator of slats coming from a 757. Was it carried into the Pentagon by missile to make it appear a 757 crashed? Was it planted?

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/buga_crash.jpg
Normally, when planes crash they don't almost completely burn into ashes, as illustrated by this plane that crashed against a mountain at Buga.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/...arest_80deg.jpg
Even if a plane impacts at 80 degrees, as happened here, it doesn't burn to ashes and it does leave lots of debris. The same should have happened for a plane crashing at the Pentagon. The plane that "crashed" in Pensylvania should also have left lots of debris in a limited area instead of the debris being dispersed over several miles. But then, that plane was shot down by white unmarked fighter planes (according to witnesses).

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/..._Amsterdam3.jpg
n 1992 a Boeing 747-200 crashed on a big appartment block in Amsterdam's Bijlmermeer neighborhood. The accident caused a huge fire. Explosions were witnessed shortly after the crash, which were mainly caused by illegal munitions the Israeli plane carried... Also see this report http://www.het-klankbord.vuurwerk.nl/bijlmer5.htm (Dutch). These explosions intensified the fire.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/..._Amsterdam4.jpg
Unlike the alleged plane at the Pentagon, the El Al Boeing took down the entire section of the building it crashed on. It also left lots of debris which was rapidly towed away by Israeli secret services (with the help of local authorities) to hide the fact the plane transported munitions and chemicals to produce Sarin gaz.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/..._trajectory.jpg
The marks on the grass indicate almost exactly the trajectory of the missile that was shot at the Pentagon. This picture was made on 7 september 2001. Were the marks made to prepare for 911?

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/..._simulation.jpg
The US authorities and security services stated that no one could ever have imagined attacks such as those on 911. However, the fact is a simulation of just such attacks were carried out exactly one year earlier.

http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/Ex_sim2.jpg
In fact, excercises of terrorist attacks were carried out all throughout 2001, including on 911.. Just a coincidence? Sure... Source: www.mdw.army.mil

- Due to too many pictures, I will have to change some pictures to plain links.
- I'm also getting "Sorry, dynamic pages in the [IMG] tags are not allowed" message so maybe a mod can change it so some pics can be shown directly on this thread.

This post has been edited by Fido 14: Dec 12 2005, 05:03 AM


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Lord Steve0
post Dec 12 2005, 07:34 PM
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Good post Fido. Very good. Lots of photos and spme well researched info and evidence too.

And for once i'm agreeing with some of what you say.
I'm certain the twin towers were not demolished by bombs, but some of the pictures are good evidence of smething going on. I'm not sure of the ones of the underside of the 2nd plane, it's just too fuzzy to really tell what is on the bottom. Could be a tank, not too sure. I doubt we'll ever know.

The smoke/dust comming out below the collapsing tower, i still think it is debris flying out of windows as the towers comes down. If you think about it, the tower would be comming apart inside as well and some debris would go down lifts, vents etc. This would get blown out of windows below the main collapse possibly.

Seismic stuff could be floors collapsing. It could also be the impacts of the planes too, the impacts were pretty powerful and shook the towers a lot. It's not solid ground under the towers, it was hollow car parks, tube stns, basements etc. They would maybe affect the shock of the impact, making it feel like an underground explosion.

The Pentagon stuff is weird. I'm really thinking now that something is not right here. The impact looks too small for a plane, even a small jumbo would leave debris and make a big hole. But there is debris there, and it is from a plane. I doubt you would get a missile and fill it with enough explosive to do the damage and spray debris everywhere that it was carrying too. A blast that big would destory the missile and the planted evidence it carried.
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OptimumPx
post Dec 12 2005, 08:09 PM
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http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pe...e_evidence.html
http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm

Please read other replys to the topic....we covered most of these already. sleep.gif


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post Dec 12 2005, 08:23 PM
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QUOTE
You guys are still bickering about this? Not only is it known that the government knocked down the towers with a customized Boeing 767 and a missile to the pentagon, but there was also a UFO seen in pictures while the 9/11 attacks were happening. As I explain to you people how our government is actually a secret society of world domination seekers (Masons, ZOG, New World Order) that commited these hideous attacks, I'd also like to come to my conclusion that the U.S. has improved and made more UFO's since the Roswell incident on 1947 where they got information from the alien that crashed on how to make UFO's and the technology that is in them. What could they possibly need UFO's for? Spying on other countries and of course its own people. I also believe that they've been communicating with the alien that crashed at Roswell ever since, and our government is communicating with intergalactic invisible planets where the highest of all technology is. Now in this case, the government used one of their UFO's to check to see if the plans on 9/11 were going alright.


Maybe you should lay off the video games for a lil bit.. wink.gif The evidence trying to prove anything that you have said is not enough to make it believable.

Im not going to bother trying to debate on all those links, so ill just pick one random one and see if its actually true or not.

QUOTE
http://thebiggestsecretpict.online.fr/nwo/pod-from-below.jpg
This picture clearly shows that an odd asymetrical construction of some sort occurred under the plane's fuselage, and that what can be seen on the images is not just the curious result of light and shadows.


NO.. If you actually bothered to look at the plane, you would see that it was not perfectly straight. It was turning to its right. So that odd asymetrical construction you see is not what u think it is. Its just that the left side of the plane looks bigger because of its tilt.

IPB Image

Did you even bother noticeing how the planes engines dont line up together? rolleyes.gif

This post has been edited by GTA_PlAyA_728: Dec 12 2005, 08:24 PM


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Vlad
post Dec 12 2005, 08:29 PM
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I'm buying it. I had suspected there was something more to 9/11, for a while.

You won't get me to believe anything about the aliens with advanced technology or about the ZOG being entirely behind it. But I do believe there are specific interests at play that could have definitely orchestrated the event to fulfill their interests, probably economic and political.

Masons? Skulls? Corporate interests? They all have an incredible influence on American policy, and undoubtedly they are heavily intertwined. Furthermore, what would make sense is that this secret establishment attacked the American symbols of trade and intelligence to assert their power. Perhaps there's a significant conflict between several very powerful interests over influence on America and the world.

This post has been edited by КЯасный-на-жизн: Dec 12 2005, 08:30 PM


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TommyVercettiPiz...
post May 27 2006, 06:11 PM
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I hate conspiracy theories. They are absolute rubbish and waste people's time. Their very discussion is such a waste of time and effort. Stop moaning about Bush and get on with something useful.
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clowns789
post May 27 2006, 08:17 PM
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You'd be amazed. Someone on another forum posted a topic for this and everybody thought it was a conspiracy. It was the first political post so I decided to follow it up with JDW. I instantly got death threats. And while Loose Change is the most popular Google Video, JDW was banned.


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OptimumPx
post May 28 2006, 01:11 AM
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QUOTE(Starkey @ May 27 2006, 04:08 PM) [snapback]1161106[/snapback]

I hate conspiracy theories. They are absolute rubbish and waste people's time. Their very discussion is such a waste of time and effort. Stop moaning about Bush and get on with something useful.

If you think that, then why did you bump this 5 month old topic? dry.gif


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