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> Gun Control Claims More Victims
Skinny 
post Apr 7 2009, 05:14 AM
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QUOTE
Gun Control Claims More Victims
by Benedict D. LaRosa

Last year, Virginia Tech University successfully lobbied the state legislature to prohibit concealed-permit holders from carrying a sidearm on campus. At the time, university spokesman Larry Hincker commented,

I’m sure the university community is appreciative of the General Assembly’s actions because this will help parents, students, faculty, and visitors feel safe on our campus.
In June of last year, the university reemphasized its ban on carrying guns on campus by students, employees, and visitors. Last spring, it disciplined a student with a concealed-carry permit who brought his handgun to class. On April 16, 2007, 43 students and faculty members paid the price for such shortsightedness when a deranged student killed 33 and wounded the remainder with handguns.

Despite claims to the contrary, this is not the worst school killing in U.S. history. On May 18, 1927, a disgruntled school-board member killed 45 people and injured 58 — most of them second-grade to sixth-grade children — when he set off bombs at Bath Consolidated School in Bath, Michigan.

In response to the Virginia Tech incident, gun-control advocates predictably demanded more gun-control laws. Carolyn McCarthy (D-N.Y.), author of the latest assault-weapon ban making its way through Congress, which is a more draconian version of the Clinton 1994 assault-gun ban that expired in 2004, suggested that we need to talk about guns on campus. For once, I agree with Representative McCarthy.

The gunman, Cho Seung-Hui, a Korean national with permanent resident status, had filled out the required forms and undergone the mandatory background check and waiting period, proving once again the uselessness of such laws.

The problem at Virginia Tech was not that there were guns on campus — only the campus police and gunman were armed — but that it was a “gun-free zone.” As a result, there were not enough people carrying guns to neutralize the gunman once he began his rampage. He should have been outgunned after his first shots. To a criminal or deranged person bent on killing, a gun-free zone is a free-fire zone. As is obvious from all such incidents, the police arrive too late to prevent multiple killings.

That’s not to disparage the police. In most cases, they act aggressively and competently. But they are rarely the first to arrive at the scene of a crime. The first ones there are the perpetrators and their victims. That’s when self-defense weapons are needed, not after the damage is done.

...

In 1974, 34 Israeli students were gunned down in a bus on a school trip. Israel responded by arming teachers, administrators, bus drivers, and others to protect their children. Israel has not had a repeat of that tragedy. The U.S. government’s response? Prohibit guns within 1,000 feet of schools, as if criminals and deranged people obey laws.

In October 1997, Assistant Principal Joel Myrick used a gun to stop a violent teen who was shooting up his high school in Pearl, Mississippi. The student killed two and wounded seven before Myrick could stop him. Why did it take Myrick so long to disarm the shooter? His gun was in his automobile, which was parked more than 1,000 feet from the school in compliance with the law.

In January 2002, a disgruntled student at the Appalachian School of Law in Grundy, Virginia, shot and killed the dean, a professor, and a fellow student. He was disarmed and subdued before he could harm anyone else by two students who retrieved guns from their automobiles.
Utah and Oregon allow concealed-permit holders to carry their weapons on campus. To date, no school shooting incidents have occurred in these states.

The most heavily armed populations are the Swiss and the Israelis. Crime is negligible in both countries.

The Luby Cafeteria shootings in Killeen, Texas, on October, 16, 1991, where a gunman killed 23 people, provide a stark example of the danger of gun-control laws. Suzanna Gratia Hupp, who was having lunch with her parents, left her gun in her car in compliance with state law. Her parents were among those killed. Two other diners also left their guns in their cars for fear of violating state law. Hupp had a clear shot at the killer several times as he reloaded and leisurely executed patrons.


Full article here

I never understood how anyone can be pro gun control. It does us no good. Criminals say they are more afraid of a victim being armed than a victim calling the police, so why are guns bad?


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Marney1
post Apr 7 2009, 05:25 AM
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Gun control does'nt cut gun crime, sounds stupid but its true.
Second amendment is being torn up by the do gooders.
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Passionate Homo ...
post Apr 7 2009, 01:12 PM
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Bad article. Preaches to the choir but still manages to offend those sitting on the fence by being needlessly aggressive and making no persuasive points, apart from the Israeli example, which, if I'm being scientific, is cherry-picking and unempirical.

in b4 a self-rightous right winger comes in and calls me a liberal douche without knowing my views on gun control.


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Skinny 
post Apr 7 2009, 01:33 PM
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QUOTE
making no persuasive points, apart from the Israeli example

Did you somehow miss the other five examples?


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TwoFacedTanner
post Apr 7 2009, 02:12 PM
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QUOTE(Amarillo Suave @ Apr 7 2009, 08:12 AM) [snapback]1494313[/snapback]
Bad article. Preaches to the choir but still manages to offend those sitting on the fence by being needlessly aggressive and making no persuasive points, apart from the Israeli example, which, if I'm being scientific, is cherry-picking and unempirical.

in b4 a self-rightous right winger comes in and calls me a liberal douche without knowing my views on gun control.


What a liberal douche.
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Passionate Homo ...
post Apr 7 2009, 03:37 PM
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QUOTE(Skinny. @ Apr 7 2009, 02:33 PM) [snapback]1494326[/snapback]
QUOTE
making no persuasive points, apart from the Israeli example

Did you somehow miss the other five examples?
define:persuasive

Preaching absolutely to the choir, to think of any of those points as even slightly persuasive you would have to first accept that gun control increases gun crime, which renders them redundant in any and every sphere of argument (nodding in agreement and patting each other on the back is in no way argument).


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drive carfuly,because every secend a shrak can teleport itself to your car, and try to drive your car (if you have one) with shark in it.
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Skinny 
post Apr 11 2009, 03:21 AM
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QUOTE
to think of any of those points as even slightly persuasive you would have to first accept that gun control increases gun crime

No you don't. All they are, are examples of where gun ownership helped, or could have helped. If you would like more examples, don't hesitate to ask me.

The incident in texas was probably the best example on the dangers of gun control. She had a CLEAR SHOT, but didn't have her gun with her because she wanted to obey the law. Many of those people would still be alive, if it wasn't for the liberal douches.


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Passionate Homo ...
post Apr 11 2009, 01:36 PM
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Then again, coming from a country where gun control is the law and the culture, there's been one shooting of defenceless people in...a very long time. And even then, the only people that could theoretically have shot back were preschoolers.


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QUOTE(LMOZ)
drive carfuly,because every secend a shrak can teleport itself to your car, and try to drive your car (if you have one) with shark in it.
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Darth Sexy
post Apr 12 2009, 08:06 AM
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I really can't be arsed arguing endlessly about whether gun control kills more people or not. All I'll say is that in Australia, where we have strict gun control laws, I can't think of any school shootings, and only a handful of armed mass murders.


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QUOTE(Lmoz96 @ Jul 27 2009, 08:31 PM) [snapback]1514882[/snapback]
Marney1... you know that I can literatly kill you
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Marneyo Juano
post Apr 12 2009, 02:54 PM
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I think this has been discussed over before, gun control isn't doing any good.
Except for that, all I've gotta add that the Israelis are nothing like heavily armed (atleast not legally). To get a gun permit here, you have to work at some dangerous place such as Gaza and it's surrounding (electricians and such who work in that area can carry guns) except for that, you'll never get a gun license outside the army. Maybe the only thing keeping up the statistic are the soldiers that carry their weapons outside the base for security measures. And the crime here is nothing like low, almost anyone can get grenades, pistols, rifles, charges etc with a couple phone calls. All that strict gun control here does no good cause all the criminal families and their soldiers carry illegal guns and the rest of the population who respects the law has to sit with their heads deep in the sand.


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Heartless
post Apr 12 2009, 04:15 PM
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QUOTE(Mario Juano @ Apr 12 2009, 10:54 AM) [snapback]1495257[/snapback]
I think this has been discussed over before, gun control isn't doing any good.
Except for that, all I've gotta add that the Israelis are nothing like heavily armed (atleast not legally). To get a gun permit here, you have to work at some dangerous place such as Gaza and it's surrounding (electricians and such who work in that area can carry guns) except for that, you'll never get a gun license outside the army. Maybe the only thing keeping up the statistic are the soldiers that carry their weapons outside the base for security measures. And the crime here is nothing like low, almost anyone can get grenades, pistols, rifles, charges etc with a couple phone calls. All that strict gun control here does no good cause all the criminal families and their soldiers carry illegal guns and the rest of the population who respects the law has to sit with their heads deep in the sand.


Sure, but do you want to be like the Arabs, and give everyone an AK?


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QUOTE (Qdeathstar @ Mar 13 2009, 01:45 AM) *
The reason is that when heartless says something stupid, he really means it and believes it.

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Jasonhh
post Apr 12 2009, 11:26 PM
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QUOTE(Der Metzgermeister @ Apr 12 2009, 12:15 PM) [snapback]1495261[/snapback]
QUOTE(Mario Juano @ Apr 12 2009, 10:54 AM) [snapback]1495257[/snapback]
I think this has been discussed over before, gun control isn't doing any good.
Except for that, all I've gotta add that the Israelis are nothing like heavily armed (atleast not legally). To get a gun permit here, you have to work at some dangerous place such as Gaza and it's surrounding (electricians and such who work in that area can carry guns) except for that, you'll never get a gun license outside the army. Maybe the only thing keeping up the statistic are the soldiers that carry their weapons outside the base for security measures. And the crime here is nothing like low, almost anyone can get grenades, pistols, rifles, charges etc with a couple phone calls. All that strict gun control here does no good cause all the criminal families and their soldiers carry illegal guns and the rest of the population who respects the law has to sit with their heads deep in the sand.


Sure, but do you want to be like the Arabs, and give everyone an AK?


True, every family in Iraq is allowed one fully automatic AK while full automatic weapons can hardly be found or bought legally in America. If school security was armed with more than a f**kin pepper spray and a little more training some of these crimes wouldn't be occurring. Banning guns isn't a good idea because you can always go out on the streets and buy one.

This post has been edited by Jasonhh: Apr 12 2009, 11:27 PM
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Marneyo Juano
post Apr 12 2009, 11:51 PM
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lol pepper spray and training vs a 9mm. win.
If the terrorists (who can buy AK whether automatic weapons are legal or not) weren't shooting the American soldiers, the gun crime there wold be pretty low. Of course you can't compare the western world and the middle east when it comes to agression and gun crime. A whole different mentality.


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Marney1
post Apr 13 2009, 02:49 AM
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http://www.congresscheck.com/2009/03/13/ob...an-list-is-out/

Read it ^

This post has been edited by marney1: Apr 13 2009, 02:52 AM
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Heartless
post Apr 13 2009, 03:01 AM
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QUOTE(Mario Juano @ Apr 12 2009, 07:51 PM) [snapback]1495320[/snapback]
lol pepper spray and training vs a 9mm. win.
If the terrorists (who can buy AK whether automatic weapons are legal or not) weren't shooting the American soldiers, the gun crime there wold be pretty low. Of course you can't compare the western world and the middle east when it comes to agression and gun crime. A whole different mentality.


I'm not trying to compare them. I'm merely suggesting that the Jewish hierarchy views crime in a different way then the Muslim world. If I, as a Muslim man, took my wife into the backyard and shot her, I doubt I'd see any real repercussions, even with a heavy American presence. Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right.


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QUOTE (Qdeathstar @ Mar 13 2009, 01:45 AM) *
The reason is that when heartless says something stupid, he really means it and believes it.

“They refer to me as an uneducated barbarian. Yes, we are barbarians. We want to be barbarians, it is an honored title to us. We shall rejuvenate the world. This world is near its end.”

Die Zeiten haben sich geändert.
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Passionate Homo ...
post Apr 13 2009, 10:29 PM
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I'm not sure that's right.


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Marneyo Juano
post Apr 14 2009, 01:08 AM
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QUOTE(Der Metzgermeister @ Apr 13 2009, 05:01 AM) [snapback]1495370[/snapback]
QUOTE(Mario Juano @ Apr 12 2009, 07:51 PM) [snapback]1495320[/snapback]
lol pepper spray and training vs a 9mm. win.
If the terrorists (who can buy AK whether automatic weapons are legal or not) weren't shooting the American soldiers, the gun crime there wold be pretty low. Of course you can't compare the western world and the middle east when it comes to agression and gun crime. A whole different mentality.


I'm not trying to compare them. I'm merely suggesting that the Jewish hierarchy views crime in a different way then the Muslim world. If I, as a Muslim man, took my wife into the backyard and shot her, I doubt I'd see any real repercussions, even with a heavy American presence. Just because something is legal, doesn't make it right.


QUOTE
Of course you can't compare the western world and the middle east when it comes to agression and gun crime. A whole different mentality
(Middle east meaning the arabic countries, not Israel as it's closer to the western mentality.)


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Marney1
post Apr 16 2009, 04:59 PM
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http://www.gunbanobama.com/

Gun Ban On The Way? ^
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Indy
post Apr 16 2009, 07:17 PM
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These sites aren't biased at all.


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Skinny 
post Apr 21 2009, 11:02 AM
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QUOTE(Ind¥ @ Apr 17 2009, 05:17 AM) [snapback]1496310[/snapback]
These sites aren't biased at all.

Good idea, attack the source, then you won't have to come up with a proper argument!

This post has been edited by Skinny.: Apr 21 2009, 11:03 AM


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