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> Does Time Exist?, Another philosophical thread
Does Time Exist?
Does Time Exist?
Yes [ 13 ] ** [56.52%]
No [ 10 ] ** [43.48%]
Total Votes: 23
  
Edgecrusher
post Feb 15 2005, 10:03 PM
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I've been thinking about this alot lately, does time really exist, or is it just a human construct? There are alot of theories on this matter, but there are no clear answers. Personally I agree with Descartes; time does not exist, but it is necessary for us to keep up a pretense of it because we have no other means with which to relate to the universe.


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conFUSED
post Feb 15 2005, 10:05 PM
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yes i think it does exist.


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Corrupt
post Feb 15 2005, 10:08 PM
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Think of age, how else would we manage it? Time is a way of recording age and other life purposes(big or small). Now whether it is Human Construct or if it actually exist? I'm leaning more towards Human Construct.


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Guest_Nic Nix_*
post Feb 15 2005, 10:08 PM
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In physics a few months ago we learnt that no one knows how long a second is, and seconds we use now are just an estimate.
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Voenix
post Feb 15 2005, 10:08 PM
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I've always believed time doesn't exist. I think of it as a measurement like KG.

Just another human construct.


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iSpyware
post Feb 15 2005, 10:09 PM
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You can make time how ever you like, open up your watch and reprogram it smile.gif


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Dr. Deagle
post Feb 15 2005, 10:09 PM
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I'm not so sure.. maybe time just goes on until it ends..?

Or maybe we live in this neverending world where people just live on as usual, and there seems to be no end to it. <<----- human construct


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DAMIAN91
post Feb 15 2005, 10:12 PM
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It is the greatest invention made by man to manage things.


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Smooth101
post Feb 15 2005, 10:14 PM
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Hmm..... this question, it boggles the mind. Is time a construction of man, or a similar theory such as gravity. While you cant see it, you know that gravity must exist. In that same conspect, I have reached the question once more. Does time exist. My answer is yes.


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Miami13
post Feb 15 2005, 10:17 PM
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It is a really odd subject, I think that Humans invented Time, therefore it doesn't exist? Or does that mean it does? I don't know, but Humans invented time and seconds and minutes and hours and days and weeks and years and decades and centuries and milleniums. So I am gonna say yes Time exists but it was an inventon created by Humans.


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AmericanIdiot
post Feb 15 2005, 10:27 PM
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think for a moment, we we all die(or kill each other) and the next generation of halfway intelligent being comes to existance they will have different systems than us

also once we die the universe will go back to what ever agenda it have before we(the human race) fucked it up


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Vlad
post Feb 15 2005, 10:28 PM
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Time has always existed, as far as I know. Because there's always been creation, growth, and decay. Things aren't static. So they have to move. And if things could move anywhere at any instant, everything would just be... everywhere. Scattered. That's why things are limited in their changes and movements by space-time. You can't have objects that only move in space, without time. Our universe isn't constructed that way.

Humans only invented means of measuring time from what they saw around them as cycles in time.

Anyway, if there's some profound way you can prove to me that there's no such thing as time, I'll think about it. I haven't voted yet.

By the way, does anyone else remember that Nognullism dude that made a topic about if you believe that time doesn't exist, then you'll live forever and about sacrificing some three-horned animal thing he called a Skalpon?


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Zacko
post Feb 15 2005, 10:31 PM
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QUOTE (ElDiabloЯed4Lyf @ Feb 15 2005, 11:28 PM)
Time has always existed, as far as I know. Because there's always been creation, growth, and decay. Things aren't static. So they have to move. And if things could move anywhere at any instant, everything would just be... everywhere. Scattered. That's why things are limited in their changes and movements by space-time. You can't have objects that only move in space, without time. Our universe isn't constructed that way.

Humans only invented means of measuring time from what they saw around them as cycles in time.

Anyway, if there's some profound way you can prove to me that there's no such thing as time, I'll think about it. I haven't voted yet.

By the way, does anyone else remember that Nognullism dude that made a topic about if you believe that time doesn't exist, then you'll live forever and about sacrificing some three-horned animal thing he called a Skalpon?

Oh yeh the hippie dude who dances around with sheep while listening to Abba

Sorry a moment of madness there ohmy.gif


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LattO
post Feb 15 2005, 10:54 PM
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You never really explained the question...

What do you mean by "Time"?


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Space_Ace
post Feb 15 2005, 10:57 PM
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Good question edge.
I think time doesnt excist, humans made it... no need to explain as everyone else already has


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Qdeathstar
post Feb 15 2005, 11:05 PM
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Time exists in the same way that "fast" or "ugly" exists. It describes a certain thing..

IF your talking about minutes and stuff like taht, thats just a human construct. But time definatley exists.

Humans created the word... but not time itself.



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Neon™
post Feb 15 2005, 11:20 PM
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No Edge I think you actually watched Slipstream like I did laugh.gif

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Caution: When you read the following you will want to ask "what came before that/them?" as you should. But keep in mind everyone asks that and it would take too much room, time, and effort to type out my full beliefs. You always have to ask what came before because the human mind cannot comprehend "nothing" since in our world even space, with its lack of "anything", is still something as it is still there.

I will refer to the "beings who came before us" as the Aliens, in the true sense of the word.

I honestly think the world was once ruled by a civilization of Aliens, like our own, that met its own demise. It had us like we have lab rats, as useless, functionless pets they used to prove their points on. When they realized they were doomed (at this point they looked back at their possible ancestors in a way that I am now) they hatched a plan. Why not go down laughing? Put the pet humans on the Aliens' seemingly ruined planet, make up a history for them and leave them proof of their "past" scattered all around their planet. These Aliens had what we would refer to today as "god-like" powers (possibly due to our made up religious past). When their planet met its "demise" (the occurance that killed the "dinosaurs") the elders or persons that would stay behind to "entertain" and watch the humans (so to see that they didn't get so smart that they figured the Aliens out) left the bodies of their world (what we would refer to as "prehistoric" [possibly because the occurances in "prehistoric" times really happened before our history did] animals [say "dinosaurs", the dead bodies of all forms of Alien who didn't escape in time] and overgrowth [possibly Alien forms of buildings or the like]) to incorporate into the "history" of their little toy race they called "humanity". They planned out the human "history" and began humanity's true existance at a time where they would leave few "clues" so the humans would just consider that time a mystery, when it really was their beginning. All major occurances such as the American Revolution would have to come after this time frame because the Aliens did not have the ability to stop humans from documenting their surroundings without revealing the Alien plan. The Aliens endowed several humans with a little "starting knowledge", these humans possibly being such figures as George Washington or the like, people who would distract the attention of the future generations away from that little foggy gap in human history and place it on what the generations would deem relevant. The Aliens likely reproduced so that there would always be a few watching the humans. They likely watched as the humans evolved into what they are today, unable to stop them for fear of being found out and overrun. They likely put spyware in the area of Earth and on the Earth itself and then went off to a very distant place in one of the Universes (when you look into the night sky you are looking at history, the light reaching your eyes is anywhere from seconds to years to millions to billions of years old, by the time we as humanity see a relevant occurance in the cosmos it is too late for it to have an affect on us, therefore by the time we saw what the Aliens were doing we as humanity would all be dead, or so the Aliens thought). But the Aliens neglected to plan one item: humanity's demise. They then (we're now talking in the time frame of what humanity refers to as the 21st century) concocted several options to keep us on our feet: the most relevant to the case being the religious ones, such as God sending fire on the humans (tying in with the religious history they thought up for humanity), the natural ones, such as a volcanic chain reaction or a meteor, and the unstoppable one, it being the Sun imploding onto itself and then expanding so fast that humanity is trapped and cannot escape, therefore dying off. The Aliens set the Unstoppable one as sort of a timer, as they could find no suitably inhabitable planet or body any further away than approximately 5 billion light-years. This means that around 5 billion years after the Aliens started humanity and endowed it with its "past" and "future" the first proof of the Alien goings-on would reach Earth's vision range and give the humans a reason to send probes or the like in that direction and either the Aliens would destroy it, luring the humans' attention in even more affectively, or let it go and risk being found. The Aliens were not the elite civilization we as humans might think of when we hear of the word "alien" used in the sense of "extra-terrestrial", but an imperfect and flawed civilization much like our own. Therefore they couldn't find ways to patch every hole in human history or keep humans from thinking in ways like this story. Therefore some of their spies have fallen into human grasp. Take Roswell. There are so many conflicting reports and stories of the occurances of that time that the only believeable truth is of "alien" conduct in humanity's little section of the cosmos. These kinds of happenings are one reason why humanity will likely reach its demise in a fourth, more sinister way: Divine Intervention. If you read the Bible (possibly planted as another piece of human "history"), Divine Intervention is basically defined as a situation in which the powerful beings come from their hiding place in the "heavens" (referring to space, the cosmos, or whatever you might call it) and intervene in the goings on of humanity. This situation has peculiar similarities to the situation this report has now ended up at, of the Aliens hiding in the cosmos and feeling that they are endangered, therefore intervening so fast that humanity can do nothing about it. If the Alien community feels threatened they have only a few choices. Their first is to be caught by humans, by the race that they as a superior life form once had complete control over, and put in the situation they put humans in: as lab rats used to exercise points. From there the repetition of rulers, from Alien owning Human to the opposite, would likely repeat itself forever. Their second option, if you can even call it an option at this point, is to let humanity run out of time. Due to their ticking time bomb, the "sun", they only have so long before their little "game" is abruptly and unpreventably ended. Therefore they could just shield themselves from our spying eyes for long enough that we died out, being unable to care less wether or not humanity became suspicious, since as long as the Aliens were unharmed and unseen they were safe and their days unlimited, whereas humanity had a set doomsday. So if they held humanity off for long enough the "war" would eventually be over reguardless of how it was going. Third, and most difficult for an Alien to accept, would be to "go with the enemy". In this scenario the Aliens see that they have no hope in winning a war against the humans, the race that had effectively "beaten the clock (the sun)" in the race to become the dominant species over the Aliens. The Aliens would rather be dead than prisoner, so they take their own lives in the hopes that the humans will die as well. Of course, the Aliens could get lucky. The humans might destroy themselves. Or an occurance beyond either species' control might wipe the humans from the face of their planet, leaving the Aliens to return home and begin again. Of course the same could be said from a human perspective, an event beyond the Aliens' control killing them instantly. Of course, humanity may never know about the Aliens or the occurances beyond their literal visibility range. They may never ever know, all because of the little thing that seperates the Aliens from the humans: time.


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Edgecrusher
post Feb 15 2005, 11:25 PM
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QUOTE (ElDiabloЯed4Lyf @ Feb 15 2005, 10:28 PM)
Time has always existed, as far as I know. Because there's always been creation, growth, and decay. Things aren't static. So they have to move. And if things could move anywhere at any instant, everything would just be... everywhere. Scattered. That's why things are limited in their changes and movements by space-time. You can't have objects that only move in space, without time. Our universe isn't constructed that way.

Humans only invented means of measuring time from what they saw around them as cycles in time.

Anyway, if there's some profound way you can prove to me that there's no such thing as time, I'll think about it. I haven't voted yet.

By the way, does anyone else remember that Nognullism dude that made a topic about if you believe that time doesn't exist, then you'll live forever and about sacrificing some three-horned animal thing he called a Skalpon?

QUOTE
Time has always existed, as far as I know. Because there's always been creation, growth, and decay. Things aren't static. So they have to move. And if things could move anywhere at any instant, everything would just be... everywhere. Scattered. That's why things are limited in their changes and movements by space-time. You can't have objects that only move in space, without time. Our universe isn't constructed that way.


That begs another question though; what is an instant? If the universe, as is generally accepted, is infinite, what is the smallest (or for that matter, the largest) measure of time? To my mind, you could split it up into smaller measurements and never reach an absolute instant.

QUOTE
Anyway, if there's some profound way you can prove to me that there's no such thing as time, I'll think about it. I haven't voted yet.


Nope sorry, i'm fresh out of profound insight, at least for today. Maybe there will never be absolute proof either way, but it makes for an interesting discussion anyway, I think.

QUOTE (neonspinnaz24)
No Edge I think you actually watched Slipstream like I did laugh.gif


Lol, no. Ive never seen or heard of it, but it sounds interesting.


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Neon™
post Feb 15 2005, 11:37 PM
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Hey Edge apparently I forgot to cover TIME in that little story there. How bout this little additon then?

CAUTION: IF YOU DIDN'T READ THE PREVIOUS POST OF SIMILAR COMPLEXITY MADE BY ME THE FOLLOWING WILL MAKE NO SENSE TO YOU.


Of course in the sense of time, we as humans were probably masked with that just as the world is masked in unexplainable phenomenon. The Aliens likely created "time" as a way to move about their world while other things happened at the same time, like a video game where things are happening even off the screen as the player moves about. The Aliens, of course, couldn't leave humanity with the same time system, or at least not without some kind of indication of it in the human "history". They likely assigned the creation of "time as we know it", in all of its intervals, to a random, ancient, literally pre-history (or perhaps "pre-human-existance") civilization. Then they likely assigned buildings to that civilization, doing all of this within the mind of one human, this human to be reguarded as the one who "deciphered the code of time and where it originated". Of course, all humans know that no "ancient" civilization could ever think up a plan so complicated, as the "history" tells humanity that the ancients were completely primitive (compared to the time at which the Aliens endowed that thought into the mind of a human and gave him the ability and command to convince the others that his thought was the truth). This incompatability of stories fits in perfectly as one of the prementioned "holes in human history".

Keeping in mind the previous paragraph, the Aliens may just as easily have thrown in all of our ailments as well, as entertainment for their “game”. They probably threw in the plagues, the ancient constructions, the Indian legends, the remains of some ancient disasters, all of this as clues to the Alien goings-on. The Aliens would’ve wanted to test how smart the human race actually was. That is, before they became so intelligent that they surpassed their Alien creators. The Aliens might have placed strange items into the human world to “keep them on their toes” as to their worldly surroundings. Such things may include the pyramids. Created as part of human “history”, these may have been genuine Alien sanctuaries left in their original locations. It may also include diseases in which the infected were plagued with inexplicable ailments that defy human knowledge. Anything we as a human race have trouble explaining may very well be hard to explain because we simply can’t.


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kobain
post Feb 16 2005, 12:19 AM
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If I vote on that poll, then I contradict myself.

If I shoot an apple of your head. Then I contradict you.
But the point is.
With this message I type. I, and my sole being sit alone in the infinite vastness of space and matter.
- There are 3 rules to life. Time, a spark, and matter.

However, what exactly is time? Is it a creation of the mind, one that categorises forces into matter? Is it a vast being, that keeps everything in balance? If time does not exist, then existing dosen't. If time does, then...we are nothing but units of time. We differ from most though, as does everthing of course.
We are indefinately a dominant unit in time. But I can't say what time is.

*Looks up* Last time I try to be philosophical.


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