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> Do People Change Or Not?, my ponderings...
Loly Pop
post Jun 3 2008, 03:04 AM
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Sometimes as I lay my little head down to sleep, I wonder about the world, politics and philosophy right before I beat my meat and call it a night.

P.S. Don't get scared by this Wall of Text.

I was thinking about all my friends, the people I associate with and how they have changed through the course of high school. Sometimes, I see the reasons why, and I ask myself, why didn't i see that before. Then, I do.

I notice my best friend has changed and, no offense, has experimented with drugs and alcohol. I won't sound so proper anymore. "He went to a party and got fucked up." For the record, i don't do that stuff, don't plan on it, but i'm not some super religious person. Don't get the wrong idea. and i have nothing against drinkers or weed heads.

I came to the conclusion that he just wanted to fit in. I know that’s the dumb thing but the fact is, if you drink at a party to have fun with your friends, that's fitting in. If you want something to do on a Friday night, and that's all you can find, that's fitting in. If not, why don't you just go home and drink in a dark corner while listening to Smashing Pumpkins? Because you want to satisfaction of others around you. (I study the subconscious mind). Not EVERYONE is like this, and that was just a rant and has no point in this topic so i will continue.

Anyways, back on topic, HE wants to fit in. I thought to myself, "wow, my best friend, never saw it coming, yada yada" Then i looked back and everything was right there. He had talked all our lives about college and how "the parties are gonna be awesome." whenever we would watch any movie back then, (kinda like Superbad of today type movies.) Also, he talked about wanting to be the life of the party. He bragged about his older bro in the Navy and told me that his brother said, "if you don't drink in the Navy, you are pussy. Everyone does it though." He (BF) didn't tell me this in a condescending "what an idiot for thinking that" tone, is was more like he took it to heart whatever his brother said.

Other smaller things. His favorite movie = Beerfest. Always talked about how awesome a competition like that would be. Even little things like that.

MY Girlfriend use to be a big drinker and i tried to get her to tone it down. Talk with my besty about it, he says, "Let her be her." I suppose he was right because I did and she cheated on me. Anyhoo. My point is he always saw the other end of the spectrum when it came to this certain topic, even when he had no intentions of doing it.

My point is, is that I've always been told, "Some People Change." but I’m seeing things a lot different now.

What I believe: PEOPLE DO NOT CHANGE. People are the same person they always were. When they become that person i do not know but let me explain.

What do you consider change? Let's break down the noun/verb. Change IN A PERSON is viewed as an alteration in their actions. That is the most common conception of change. That is NOT change. Change is an alteration in a person that goes deeper than the persons choice in actions. However, this change can be seen to other people through their actions but in my case, people do not change so I have no reasoning in giving a definition. I guess I decided to give a guideline of what the norm of people SHOULD think what change is, and that is the best definition I could come up with. These are my views, of course, I am no scientist. We may have different views, they may be the same, just don't hang on a word.

So, I believe my besty was always that same guy who deep down wanted to do that. HE didn't change, that's just what he wanted.

My girlfriend, the cheating whore. I was surprised. Then I actually thought and was human and grew a brain and realized, this girl cheated on a guy with his best friend (not me and my bf, another past boyfriend) She has cheated on every serious boyfriend. She has construed perceptions of what cheating is. She's had sex with a dozen guys. Me thinking, she'll never do that to me was just me being blind. (Which I know people will contest this point with "you were blinded by love, yada yada") but the point is, I was blinded by her actions. The way she treated me different, the way she "loved" me, the way she stopped drinking just for me.

And that is the problem is that we form our perceptions of people based on their actions. Ever had someone you hate, but another person you know likes them. It’s the perception of their actions or should I say misinterpretation of their actions. Scenario: Kid breaks in front of you to get a milk for his girlfriend.

You are thinking, "Hey, this guys an asshole and a half. I would do something, but the act of cutting is so petty, I’ll keep it to myself."
The Girlfriend is thinking, "My boy is so dreamy!! *heart heart*"Ok not really, but they appreciate the gesture.

Now let's break things down. He was greedy in both senses but we only see one side of it. Yes he broke in front of me = What a dickhead. OOOOORRRRRR He broke in front of him to get me a milk = What a Dreamboat.

The fact is is that you don't know the whole story. The inner kid who committed the breaking had selfish reasoning. Pick one of the following or add your own……… "I could get some action for this milk."..."I get it because she asks me, but i don't want to."..."I don't want to wait in that long ass line. Look at this scrawny fuck. He's perfect for me to step all over." And for the naïve ones out there reading this: “He was just trying to do a nice gesture.” Bwhahah! Yeah, and Santa Claus is real, Yellow Dye (5) really does make your penis shrink, and Rosie O’ Donnell legs are not the size of tree trunks. The reasoning behind actions is everything in my opinion.

I gave that book-o’-scenario to you because you half to look deeper than the surface like the age old adage, "Don't judge a book by it's cover." Don't judge a person by actions.

OK, bringing it full circle now. Do people change? My answer. NO. They were the person they always we deep inside. They smother those feelings so low, so they can conform to their parents or friends or siblings. If you are the person you are, you actions do not always reflect it. Want to argue with what i just said? You act different around your friends, rather you do your parents. Shablam. pwn'd. end.

I have a friend who is completely hallow as a person. I tend to confine his personality in the definition of flat and round characters in books. A “round character” is define as someone who faces conflict or adversity, encounters it and is changed by it. (Now listen, by change they mean overcome…in no way am I backtracking and saying that people change in this sense. For the sake of argument…) “Flat characters” are minor, undeveloped people who you never really know.

Now this friend is completely flat. There is no depth to his personality. For example, a person can be easily defined by the way they argue in two ways: 1) It shows what that person stands for…and 2) It tends to bring out the worst in people so you actually see that person at their lowest low. Side note: arguing is fantastic. Now this particular person argues like a moron. He has no thought process and reasonably so. Sometimes I listen to him, and wondering if he is just spewing shit just because he feels like he needs to contribute to conversation. Let me set up a scenario of an argument.

Friend: I’d rather have a truck than a car.
Me: Why is that?
Friend: Just because…
Me: Ok…so a truck. Pros: makes you feel badassish. Cons: less seats, hard to park, higher rollover rate, less gas mileage, terrible for road trips etc. What possesses you to want to possess a truck?
Friend: Idk, they are cool….

I stand in disbelief. After a bombardment of facts and everything laid out in front of him, it made me think, hmmmmmm, does he evaluate what he thinks and really mean anything he says? I wonder about people like that who fall back on opinionated statements or “I don’t know, I just think this.” Another example of an argument/debate, but this time he handles it in a different fashion.

Friend: I’d rather be lucky and win, than skilled and lose.
Me: You serious…give me a break.
Friend: I mean, come on, championship time, I’d rather have a ball roll into the goal on a lucky shot, than played good and lose…
Me: So you are saying that you would rather walk off the field knowing you played shitty, than walk off with your head held high, knowing you did everything you could to help your team win?
Friend: well….
Me: so you are saying, you rather have everyone look at your team, knowing you won because you lucked out, than for them to look at you, knowing you played your heart out, like a champion and gave them a damn good game?
Friend: well…
Me: so you’re-
Friend: Look in those cases, no, but in others I mean, I really would rather be.

Wow. Whatanass. This guy backtracks after I present situations he never thought of before hence my rant on people not ever fully thinking things through. This guy accommodated my points and opinions into his argument. You know what you do when that happens? It means that, in his eyes at least, he can’t be wrong. He has made room everyone else’s opinions so when you basically agree with everyone, it leaves no room for debate. His mindset is “If I could somehow fit everyone else’s thoughts into mine, no matter how polar opposite they may be, I can’t lose. We can’t disagree.”
Once again, let me bring this full circle. A “round character” is define as someone who faces conflict or adversity, encounters it and is changed by it. This friend did not. This friend, in the way his first argument went, opted out. He backed down from the problem he faced, which was adversity. An opposing opinion. Secondly, this friend was not changed as shown by his second argumentativeness. He accommodated the thoughts of another into his instead of just admitting his own opinion was flawed in HIS eyes (not even everyone else’s….but he realizes it or he wouldn’t have second guessed his own).

When he was faced with conflict and adversity, he was not changed by it, it was changed by him. He made the problem apart of himself instead of dealing with it, and this goes way deeper in life than just some argument about trucks or soccer skill. It goes deeper. This is how that kid handles his problems in the real world and that is a terrible way to work.

This whole rant/offtopic discussion was to show you about this kid and how he conformed to others, rather it be arguing, or the fact that he was emo and since he started dating a girl, he now wears Hollister. He is trying to fit the norm, trying to be what people want him to be, rather than being himself. Now what is his true self? No one fucking knows because he molded his life after the people he placed himself around.

This boy has no direction, but only follows the beaten path of others. Now, the easiest way to define the situation would be what? “Wow that guy changed.” Of course. You wouldn’t say “Wow that guy changed his actions, but his real personality is still the same inside.” Sounds gay as balls. I’ve been caught saying that first and they will roast you for it because it sounds as if you are admitting to people changing on a deeper level; when really, you are admitting that an aspect of their life is different from before, and it is noticeable. You notice it, and you state the change in the easiest way you could.

When you change your colors so much, you tend to forget what your original hue was. In this case, I don’t know if he could every find who he really is, and perhaps, that is what he is searching for. Going around, latching onto a group with set qualities (step two is conforming J) and figuring out if they feel comfortable. “Does this feel right?” is a possibility of what he is asking himself. He is subconsciously finding a place to fit.

Also, I believe whole heartedly in subconscious actions. People tend to go through life without thinking things through (as I said before). The reason behind giving gifts to someone is mainly selfish, you just don't know it yet. Christmas - it's because you half to. Don't want to leave that one relative out in the rain who didn't get a nice fruitcake (which is the shitty gift for that person you feel doesn't deserve anything better from you) Give your wife a ring for Birthday of Valentines every few years. Why not every year? Does she not deserve it. Because it's your money that's going into that ring. You could always afford one every year, but you want to spend it on blowjobs from a hooker. That's love.

You give rings every few year because it's one of those rules. You got to follow the RULES. No you don't, you think you do because that's what you see as making someone happy, then you feel good because you think you did it out of love but are too blind to see the real reasoning. It's a rule. It was "about that time" to give a ring again. She may see it as a lovely gesture, but it really wasn't.

If you've made it this far, thank you. I kept typing but i will say everything i have said goes back to and is interlinked by my main point.

A person's personality and everything about them, characteristics, moods, all of it is a definite. They don't change, only the things that they do do. You might never know someone's true self because you judgment of them is clouded by what they do. A man who goes atheist, then Christian, then atheist. What is he? Who knows because his judgment apparently is easily swayed.

I just want to know what other people think about this, if anyone cared to read. Do people change or not?


This post has been edited by Loly Pop: Jun 30 2008, 04:12 AM


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psychø
post Jun 3 2008, 11:09 AM
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How in the slightest is this a political or world issue........................

QUOTE
Bush Bashing? Michael Moore giving you a hernia? Spill your political issues here. From the war to crime and healthcare. Blabber an opinion on today's government establishment or religion here.
Fill any of those criteria even a little bit............no.


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nirvanafrik
post Jun 3 2008, 11:26 AM
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fuck the world


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Styl
post Jun 3 2008, 12:03 PM
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Those replies are classic.

Main topic though, I read the entire post. I've thought a lot about if people really change also. I definitely think it has to do with the self-awareness and intelligence of a person. With me, I'm always wondering about how others see me, how I come off to others and what I could do differently. A person can change in different ways, though. Maybe developing or abdicating a certain feeling like having a temper, being depressed, or fearful.
Back to the self awareness thing... You really have to know what kind of person you are in order to change that. For example, the drug addict coming clean. That's a change. They might always have the urge to go back to drugs, but they don't. But I do see what you're saying about the subconscious mind, how a person will always have the same general tendencies.
I do believe that people can change though. In these past few years, ever since I graduated high school, I've totally flipped my whole outlook in life around. When I was in still in school, I only had myself to worry about. Now that I have a daughter, its really gave me a different view on almost everything. Having a child most definitely can change a person. But... BUT, only if they are willing to change their self.
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Loly Pop
post Jun 3 2008, 05:23 PM
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QUOTE(psychø @ Jun 3 2008, 06:09 AM) [snapback]1444334[/snapback]
How in the slightest is this a political or world issue........................

QUOTE
Bush Bashing? Michael Moore giving you a hernia? Spill your political issues here. From the war to crime and healthcare. Blabber an opinion on today's government establishment or religion here.
Fill any of those criteria even a little bit............no.



QUOTE
Life - Having friends, socializing while pursuing a goal for your future


Do you fill any of those criteria even a little bit...........no.



EDIT: And Styl, that's good view on things but about your crackhead addict point....The thing is is that yeah, he changed his actions, but he still has that urge to do it deep down inside, it's the fact that he doesn't.

You are a murderer at heart if you would truely honestly kill someone, but because you don't take that chance and actually kill that person, you aren't a murderer on the outside. We think that it stems from what you actually do, and what you WOULD do. We also think it doesn't matter what you WOULD do as long as you don't do it. It may not matter to everyone else, but it doesn't change the fact that you are what you are on the inside. And the inside is what matters to who a person truely is, not the outside perceptions.

This post has been edited by Loly Pop: Jun 3 2008, 05:29 PM


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psychø
post Jun 3 2008, 06:16 PM
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QUOTE(Loly Pop @ Jun 3 2008, 06:23 PM) [snapback]1444470[/snapback]
QUOTE(psychø @ Jun 3 2008, 06:09 AM) [snapback]1444334[/snapback]
How in the slightest is this a political or world issue........................

QUOTE
Bush Bashing? Michael Moore giving you a hernia? Spill your political issues here. From the war to crime and healthcare. Blabber an opinion on today's government establishment or religion here.
Fill any of those criteria even a little bit............no.



QUOTE
Life - Having friends, socializing while pursuing a goal for your future
Do you fill any of those criteria even a little bit...........no.

Actually, I would say I am the pinnacle of all of them.


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Ridikul
post Jun 3 2008, 08:06 PM
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No, people do not change. At our core, we're still the same sex-hungry, greedy, animal that our ancestors were.


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Loly Pop
post Jun 4 2008, 01:40 AM
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QUOTE(psychø @ Jun 3 2008, 01:16 PM) [snapback]1444497[/snapback]
QUOTE(Loly Pop @ Jun 3 2008, 06:23 PM) [snapback]1444470[/snapback]
QUOTE(psychø @ Jun 3 2008, 06:09 AM) [snapback]1444334[/snapback]
How in the slightest is this a political or world issue........................

QUOTE
Bush Bashing? Michael Moore giving you a hernia? Spill your political issues here. From the war to crime and healthcare. Blabber an opinion on today's government establishment or religion here.
Fill any of those criteria even a little bit............no.



QUOTE
Life - Having friends, socializing while pursuing a goal for your future
Do you fill any of those criteria even a little bit...........no.

Actually, I would say I am the pinnacle of all of them.

Well aren't you a god among mere mortals.

If you have those features pinnicalized, then Tiger Woods acts black...

This post has been edited by Loly Pop: Jun 4 2008, 01:41 AM


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Hardcore Ottoman
post Jun 4 2008, 02:29 AM
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I'm not sure on this one. I feel change is merely begot when a person reacts vastly different to a new environment with new people that at one point he no longer remembers how he was previously. Of course, what is changing is his perception but what may not be changing is why he felt the need to change his perception. In my experiences in life, changing yourself on the outside will sooner or later change yourself on the inside over a long period.

My anti-social period between 14-16 actually changed my speech--I could not talk so fluidly or with confidence for a while and I am only recently recovering from it. So aspects of people can change but their awareness of it does not perhaps. I'm not sure where I am going with this but perhaps people change in respect to how others see them because it is their recognition that makes them feel real. Maybe the idea of changing ones' personality or perspective is just the method to be seen right in others' minds instead of just yours for a change.

When these people half-ass their attempt of change like that ex-girlfriend of yours they are lying to themselves and thus not changing at all. Because it is key to note you did figure her out; others have figured her out too. Perhaps change is attained when the link between the former person and the future person is missing or blurred. Of course, this prescribes that people exude the illusion of change but I cannot quite accept the paradox seen here.

Maybe perception changed by great emotional events, greater by the measure of the unexplicable sensations they cause within the brain and less by the logic and understanding coupled with the conscious mind; maybe that is change. Change you didn't ask for. Something that you had no control over. You yielded to it and you didn't even realize 'til you met that friend you used to think was a great guy but downright does not see eye to eye with you in the remotest sense anymore. When a figure from your past is the tool you use to juxtapose your former self from the current.

To me, all of that is change. Change stops when a person ceases to act differently than the way you remember him consistently--not one day to impress a girl who wanted a chocolate milk in the lunch line.


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Skinny 
post Jun 4 2008, 12:53 PM
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QUOTE(Loly Pop @ Jun 4 2008, 03:23 AM) [snapback]1444470[/snapback]
You are a murderer at heart if you would truely honestly kill someone, but because you don't take that chance and actually kill that person, you aren't a murderer on the outside. We think that it stems from what you actually do, and what you WOULD do. We also think it doesn't matter what you WOULD do as long as you don't do it. It may not matter to everyone else, but it doesn't change the fact that you are what you are on the inside. And the inside is what matters to who a person truely is, not the outside perceptions.

To put it more simply, you can change and manipulate your actions, but you cannot actualy cahnge who you are in your subconcious mind.


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Severus Snape
post Jun 4 2008, 04:40 PM
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I believe that change is possible, and that people can change. However, they must really want to change or it will never happen. To expand on Leng T'Che's post above, I believe that someone really has to want to be a better/different person in order for change to occur. For example:

Boy and girl are together. Girl cheats on boy (or vice versa). Girl gets busted, and doesn't want to be alone, so she says that she's sorry and will change and won't do it again. This scenario can play out one of two ways. If the girl really is only saying sorry because she got busted, then she isn't going to change who she is fundamentally. However, if she truly is sorry, and she realizes that what she has done is wrong and she wants to change, then the possibility that she can change exists.

Now, that being said, there are fundamental aspects of being human that we cannot change no matter how hard we try. We will all have the animal instincts to eat, sleep, and breed built into us. We can choose to ignore those aspects, but we cannot truly change ourselves to not have these instincts. Change of habits can be done, but not of instinct.

This post has been edited by Leon Kennedy: Jun 4 2008, 04:40 PM


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We're more than capable of answering you, we're just not doing it because you're being a cunt, and it's you specifically we don't care about, we do care about the rest of the forums.


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Loly Pop
post Jun 5 2008, 03:04 AM
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To Both Leche and Leon...

Can we really say that person had changed about the cheating thing?

Ok listen, she changed because she was busted. Because there was reprocussions of her actions and who she was deep down, she decided to change those actions. Is that true change?

I think not. Much like a drug addict who goes to prison, or an alcoholic whose parents get killed by a drunk driver, they only stop their habits, like you say Leon, because of negative feedback. Negative feedback loops cause people to change their actions, but jsut think if they would have never recieved in reprocussions for their actions. They would have NEVER changed in the firstplace, therefore, it would not be change in my opinion.

This post has been edited by Loly Pop: Jun 5 2008, 03:04 AM


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Skinny 
post Jun 5 2008, 09:08 AM
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QUOTE(Leon Kennedy @ Jun 5 2008, 02:40 AM) [snapback]1444875[/snapback]
Boy and girl are together. Girl cheats on boy (or vice versa). Girl gets busted, and doesn't want to be alone, so she says that she's sorry and will change and won't do it again. This scenario can play out one of two ways. If the girl really is only saying sorry because she got busted, then she isn't going to change who she is fundamentally. However, if she truly is sorry, and she realizes that what she has done is wrong and she wants to change, then the possibility that she can change exists.

Again, that would only be changing your actions. She would never have stopped unless she was caught and she relised the consequences of her actions would be to loose her boyfriend, she doesn't want that to happen, so she stops cheatting on him. That's not the change of anything other than her actions, if she did it in the first place she is only now stopping because she was caught. If she wasn't caught odds are she would continue cheating (unless she was drunk or something wich would mean the situation has nothing to do with change).

QUOTE(psychø @ Jun 3 2008, 06:09 AM)
How in the slightest is this a political or world issue........................


He must have just wanted a more intelligent response than what he would get in general disscusion. I guess your presence means that plan failed...


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Hardcore Ottoman
post Jun 6 2008, 03:50 AM
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QUOTE(Loly Pop @ Jun 4 2008, 11:04 PM) [snapback]1445097[/snapback]
To Both Leche and Leon...

Can we really say that person had changed about the cheating thing?

Ok listen, she changed because she was busted. Because there was reprocussions of her actions and who she was deep down, she decided to change those actions. Is that true change?

I think not. Much like a drug addict who goes to prison, or an alcoholic whose parents get killed by a drunk driver, they only stop their habits, like you say Leon, because of negative feedback. Negative feedback loops cause people to change their actions, but jsut think if they would have never recieved in reprocussions for their actions. They would have NEVER changed in the firstplace, therefore, it would not be change in my opinion.

Well, your topic was so broad I did not believe it was strictly limited to this ex of yours. I will add that the best kind of change is done before the consequences of your previous behavior ever arise--before this chick realizes she will lose her bf from cheating on him, for example. This means she does not do it without afterthought. It's not impossible. It's just not common.

And this is a world issue in a way.


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Loly Pop
post Jun 6 2008, 05:10 AM
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QUOTE(Leng Tch @ Jun 5 2008, 10:50 PM) [snapback]1445517[/snapback]
QUOTE(Loly Pop @ Jun 4 2008, 11:04 PM) [snapback]1445097[/snapback]
To Both Leche and Leon...

Can we really say that person had changed about the cheating thing?

Ok listen, she changed because she was busted. Because there was reprocussions of her actions and who she was deep down, she decided to change those actions. Is that true change?

I think not. Much like a drug addict who goes to prison, or an alcoholic whose parents get killed by a drunk driver, they only stop their habits, like you say Leon, because of negative feedback. Negative feedback loops cause people to change their actions, but jsut think if they would have never recieved in reprocussions for their actions. They would have NEVER changed in the firstplace, therefore, it would not be change in my opinion.

Well, your topic was so broad I did not believe it was strictly limited to this ex of yours. I will add that the best kind of change is done before the consequences of your previous behavior ever arise--before this chick realizes she will lose her bf from cheating on him, for example. This means she does not do it without afterthought. It's not impossible. It's just not common.

And this is a world issue in a way.


Ohh, it isn't strictly about my girlfriend. What brought on these thoughts was actually my friend and I just started thinking about people im closest to and the ones around me.


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Severus Snape
post Jun 6 2008, 11:57 AM
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QUOTE(Loly Pop @ Jun 6 2008, 12:10 AM) [snapback]1445531[/snapback]
Ohh, it isn't strictly about my girlfriend. What brought on these thoughts was actually my friend and I just started thinking about people im closest to and the ones around me.

I understand that. I'm just using that scenario as it is the one that most people can relate to and identify with.

I still say that a person can change who they are if they truly want to change. But they have to want to do it for themselves, and not for someone else. An example of this would be the typical college student. Generally speaking, they aren't worldly wise, being just about 18 and (in most cases, not all) out of the nest for the first time in their lives. In order to adjust to college, and in a larger sense society, they have to make fundamental changes to themselves or they will quickly fall out of place with the rest of the world. If this person continues to act like they are still living at home, and they don't start to mature and make changes to themselves, they won't be able to keep up. In this example, the person has to change who they are. Not necessarily changing everything, but large pieces of their nature have to change in order to deal.


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Bain
post Jun 11 2008, 06:24 PM
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QUOTE(Loly Pop @ Jun 2 2008, 10:04 PM) [snapback]1444268[/snapback]
Sometimes as I lay my little head down to sleep, I wonder about the world, politics and philosophy right before I beat my meat and call it a night.

P.S. Don't get scared by this Wall of Text.

I was thinking about all my friends, the people I associate with and how they have changed through the course of highschool. Sometimes, I see the reasons why, and I ask myself, why didn't i see that before. Then, I do.

I notice my bestfriend has changed and, no offense, has experimented with drugs and alcohol. I won't sound so proper anymore. "He went to a part and got fucked up." For the record, i don't do that stuff, don't plan on it, but i'm not some super religious person. Don't get the wrong idea. and i have nothing against drinkers or weedheads.

I came to the conclusion that he just wanted to fit in. I know thats the dumb thing but the fact is, if you drink at a party to have fun with your friends, that's fitting in. If you want something to do on a friday night, and that's all you can find, that's fitting in. If not, why don't you just go home and drink in a dark corner while listening to Smashing Pumpkins? Because you want to satisfaction of others around you. (I study the subconscious mind). Not EVERYONE is like this, and that was just a rant and has no point in this topic so i will continue.

Anyways, back on topic, HE wants to fit in. I thought to myself, "wow, my bestfriend, never saw it coming, yada yada" Then i looked back and everything was right there. He had talked all our lives about college and how "the parties are gonna be awesome." whenever we would watch any movie back then, (kinda like Superbad of today type movies.) Also, he talked about wanting to be the life of the party. He bragged about his older bro in the Navy and told me that his brother said, "if you don't drink in the Navy, you are pussy. Everyone does it though." He (BF) didn't tell me this in a condesending "what an idiot for thinking that" tone, is was more like he took it to heart whatever his brother said.

Other smaller things. His favorite movie = Beerfest. Always talked about how awesome a competition like that would be. Even little things like that.

MY Girlfriend use to be a big drinker and i tried to get her to tone it down. Talk with my besty about it, he says, "Let her be her." I suppose he was right because I did and she cheated on me. Anyhoo. My point is he always saw the other end of the spectrum when it came to this certain topic, even when he had no intentions of doing it.

My point is, is that I've always been told, "Some People Change." but i'm seeing things alot different now.

What I believe: PEOPLE DO NOT CHANGE. People are the same person they always were. When they become that person i do not know but let me explain.

What do you consider change? Let's break down the noun/verb. Change IN A PERSON is viewed as an alteration in their actions. That is the most common conception of change. That is NOT change. Change is a an alteration in a person deep down which is actually seen to other people through their actions. This are my views, of course, I am no scientist. We may have different views, they may be the same, just don't hang on a word.

So, I believe Ethan was always that same guy who deep down wanted to do that. HE didn't change, that's just what he wanted.

My girlfriend, the cheating whore. I was suprised. Then i actually thought and was human and grew a brain and realized, this girl cheated on a guy with his best friend (not me and my bf, another past boyfriend) She has cheated on every serious boyfriend. She has constrewed perceptions of what cheating is. She's had sex with a dozen guys. Me thinking, she'll never do that to me was just me being blind. (which i know people will contest this point with "you were blinded by love, yada yada") but the point is, i was blinded by her actions. The way she treated me different, the way she "loved" me, the way she stopped drinking just for me.

and that is the problem is that we form our perceptions of people based on their actions. Ever had someone you hate, but another person you know likes them. IT's the perception of their actions or should i say misinterpretation of their actions. Scenario: Kid breaks infront of you to get a milk for his girlfriend.

You are thinking, "Hey, this guys an asshole and a half. I would do something, but the act of cutting is so petty, i'll keep it to myself."
The Girlfriend is thinking, "My boy is so dreamy!! *heart heart*"Ok not really, but they appreciate the gesture.

Now let's break things down. He was greedy in both senses but we only see one side of it. Yes he broke in front of me. What a dickhead. OOOOORRRRRR He broke in front of him to get me a milk. Dreamboat.

The fact is is that you don't know the whole story. The inner kid who commited the breaking had selfish reasoning. "I could get some action for this milk."..."I get it because she asks me, but i don't want to."..."I don't want to wait in that long ass line. Look at this scrawny fuck. He's perfect for me to step all over." The reasoning behind actions is everything in my opinion.

I gave that book of a scenario to you because you half to look deeper than the surface like the age old adage, "Don't judge a book by it's cover." Don't judge a person by actions.

OK, bringing it full circle now. Do people change? My answer. NO. They were the person they always we deep inside. They smother those feelings so low, so they can conform to their parents or friends or siblings. If you are the person you are, you actions do not always reflect it. Want to argue with what i jsut said? You act different around your friends, than you do your parents. Shablam. pwn'd. end.

I believe whole heartedly in subconscious actions. People tend to go through life without thinking things through. The reason behind giving gifts to someone is mainly selfish, you just don't know it yet. Christmas - it's because you half to. Don't want to leave that one relative out in the rain who didn't get a nice fruitcake (which is the shitty gift for that person you feel doesn't deserve anything better from you) Give your wife a ring for Birthday of Valentines every few years. Why not every year? Does she not deserve it. Because it's your money that's going into that ring. You could always afford one every year, but you want to spend it on blowjobs from a hooker. That's love.

You give rings every few year because it's one of those rules. You gotta follow the RULES. No you don't, you think you do because that's what you see as making someone happy, then you feel good because you think you did it out of love but are too blind to see the real reasoning. It's a rule. It was "about that time" to give a ring again. She may see it as a lovely gesture, but it really wasn't.

If you've made it this far, thank you. I kept typing but i will say everything i have said goes back to and is interlinked by my main point.

A person's personality and everything about them, characterstics, moods, all of it is a definite. They don't change, only the things that they do do. You might never know someone's true self because you judgement of them is clouded by what they do. A man who goes atheist, then christain, then athiest. What is he? Who knows because his judgement apparently is easily swayed.

I just want to know what other people think about this, if anyone cared to read. Do people change or not?


I just read through 3/4 of that and then said how in the fuck is this remotely related to political or world issues.....then I read everyone elses posts.......yeah.


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