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> Health Care?, That dead horse again.
Heartless
post Jun 15 2009, 05:06 AM
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Me and my wife (to be) got into a nasty argument about health care after watching House. First mistake is, never argue with a woman. Of course I'm right damn it, America has the best health care system in the world. But what's with these idiots saying otherwise?

Kangaroos discuss emerging American health care statistics.

Compare for a moment against this page:

Oh Lord, you have forsaken me. Another Wikipedia article.

The irony here is of course that it proves that AIDs either does not exist, or simply did not plunge Africa into the millions dead deficit the 8th grade G&T geopolitical classes would like us to believe. Or sleeping sickness, adders and endemic genocide. But that's a Juice box of another diarrhea shade.

Who's the crack fiend who concocted this list anyways? Look at the WHO article:

Over here douche bag, it's in black and white. Goddamn it, Juice is gonna rape me.

It lists San Marino and Andorra and a slew of other countries I've never heard of, nevermind Oman, which I know is a fuck hole. So who's lying? AIDs deniers at Wikipedia? Some shithead who slaved away 8 years at medical school to hack up a few misdiagnosed bench marks for a country the size of a US rural township? How about you buttfungus? This may not be a rant or a rave, but an answer would be stellar. Play this in the back ground, it helps:

[youtube]aE-I0ombIEY[/youtube]

Why is it no source agrees whos right, but the US is simply wrong, even when not judged against Albania, Tansinania, Cuba or China?


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Skinny†
post Jun 15 2009, 07:58 AM
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America does have the best health care system in the world. It certainly isn't Sweden or Britain, where everyone has the 'equal right' to the stuff America has produced, due to the USA's lack of socialised medicine and life saving pharmasuitical companies not being raped out of the market by socialist do gooders. In other words, a country with socialised medicine may seem nice statistically, but the government is paying for drugs produced by an overseas market, which doesn't have a fat fucking pox upon the medical community what is soon to become selective rationing, with the poor at the bottom of the list, despite the left's intentions socialised medicine.

Ergo, if the whole world had the system Europe enjoys, we would all have the right to treatment, with little or no treatment available, while if the whole world had the USA's system, or better yet, a free market system with insurance covering major injuries and illnesses, and Employee Health Funds (can't be arsed explaining the system now, ask me if you really want more information) to cover minor health concerns, there would be an abundance of treatment, at easy access. Which system helps the sick more?

Furthermore, the culprit when it comes to high prices for treatment isn't "evil greedy capitalist pigs zomg" because drugs cost the same amount in Sweden and Canada. The problem is, people using insurance to pay for the smallest things. For example, when you drop a bowling ball on your foot or are suffering fro ma headache, it shouldn't cost that much for a check up. The problem is, the invisible hand is thrown off by governemnt or insurance companies paying for the treatment, leading to people having no clue how much treatment actually costs. Go to a normal doctor and a routine check up will cost you, or rather, your health care provider (private or public) up to $400, maybe more, with you being left some of the costs. Then go to one that doesn't accept insurance, and instead takes Employee Health Funds, or to one of the stalls in Walmart; a check up will cost you around $30 - $40.

I recomment watching Sick in America: Whose Body is it Anyway?. A great special, that serves to show the inherit concerns in the ridiculous plans of people like Obama, and the erroneous assertions made about market based insurance in films like Sicko. Micheal Moore gets greatly humiliated when John Stossel points out, that despite his claims that America and market based coverage in general sucks, Michael Moore attended a weight loss spa in the USA. As did many world leaders, of countires with socialised medicine.


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Leon Kennedy
post Jun 15 2009, 01:50 PM
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I work in the insurance industry here in the US, so I feel that it's appropriate that I put my 2/100 of a dollar out here. Not gonna say that I'm right or wrong, but I am going to address Skinny's response.

QUOTE(Skinny. @ Jun 15 2009, 02:58 AM) [snapback]1507981[/snapback]
America does have the best health care system in the world.

Sure we do. That's why people who cannot afford health insurance are denied medical treatment. You cannot get medical treatment in this country - even if you are dying - unless you or your family can prove ability to pay. And in some cases, even if you have ability to pay, if you cannot prove it for whatever reason, you are denied treatment.

QUOTE(Skinny. @ Jun 15 2009, 02:58 AM) [snapback]1507981[/snapback]
It certainly isn't Sweden or Britain, where everyone has the 'equal right' to the stuff America has produced, due to the USA's lack of socialised medicine and life saving pharmasuitical companies not being raped out of the market by socialist do gooders. In other words, a country with socialised medicine may seem nice statistically, but the government is paying for drugs produced by an overseas market, which doesn't have a fat fucking pox upon the medical community what is soon to become selective rationing, with the poor at the bottom of the list, despite the left's intentions socialised medicine.

I cannot speak for socialized medicine, but I can speak to Big Pharma here in the states. You talk about pharmaceutical companies getting "r.aped" by socialist do-gooders, but you don't address the issue of the companies in the US over-pricing for medication that some people here would die without. Why does it cost more than $500 a month to treat migraine headaches? Or more than $1000 a month to treat heart disease? We cannot lose sight of the fact that regardless of system, people are being priced out of their ability to receive medications that they so desperately need.

QUOTE(Skinny. @ Jun 15 2009, 02:58 AM) [snapback]1507981[/snapback]
Ergo, if the whole world had the system Europe enjoys, we would all have the right to treatment, with little or no treatment available,

So, in a socialized system, there is little to no treatment available? Prove it. I want to see your proof that there is little to no treatment available in a socialized system. And don't pull some third world, ass-backwards country out of your ass. Use a system like France or Britain. Or Canada. Show me that there is no treatment available.

QUOTE(Skinny. @ Jun 15 2009, 02:58 AM) [snapback]1507981[/snapback]
while if the whole world had the USA's system, or better yet, a free market system with insurance covering major injuries and illnesses, and Employee Health Funds (can't be arsed explaining the system now, ask me if you really want more information) to cover minor health concerns, there would be an abundance of treatment, at easy access.

You forgot to add in the fact that we are overcharged here in the US, and that no matter what treatment we need we will end up with thousands of dollars in out-of-pocket expenses due to any number of the following:

1. Deductible
2. Coinsurance
3. Copayments
4. Charges above and beyond "Reasonable and Customary"
5. Charges not covered due to limitations and/or exclusions in an insurance policy

QUOTE(Skinny. @ Jun 15 2009, 02:58 AM) [snapback]1507981[/snapback]
Which system helps the sick more?

I can't speak for socialized medicine, but I know that the system in the US is broken.

QUOTE(Skinny. @ Jun 15 2009, 02:58 AM) [snapback]1507981[/snapback]
Furthermore, the culprit when it comes to high prices for treatment isn't "evil greedy capitalist pigs zomg"

You are correct. Partially. It isn't entirely the fault of evil greedy capitalist pigs. The largest portion of this issue is in the shifting of costs from those who cannot pay (or cannot pay completely) to the insurance companies and those people who can pay. Example: Guy goes into the hospital and gets a $5000 procedure. He cannot pay. The hospital has to make up for this non-payment, so they increase their prices. Next guy comes in for the same procedure, and the bill is $5500. Insurance pays.

QUOTE(Skinny. @ Jun 15 2009, 02:58 AM) [snapback]1507981[/snapback]
because drugs cost the same amount in Sweden and Canada.

Not necessarily. I'm quite sure that most of them do, but not all. The major issue here is the US not allowing its citizens to purchase those prescriptions that they can get cheaper in Canada or Mexico. This is a case of Big Pharma being greedy cocksuckers.

[quote name='Skinny.' date='Jun 15 2009, 02:58 AM' post='1507981']
The problem is, people using insurance to pay for the smallest things. For example, when you drop
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Skinny†
post Jun 15 2009, 02:35 PM
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QUOTE(Marilyn.Manson @ Jun 15 2009, 11:50 PM) [snapback]1507988[/snapback]
Sure we do. That's why yap yap yap
Did you even read my response? I said it may not be the best to live under, but it produces the most. In other words, socialised medicine spounges off the US's system, while statistically looking better.

QUOTE
You talk about pharmaceutical companies getting "r.aped" by socialist do-gooders, but you don't address the issue of the companies in the US over-pricing for medication that some people here would die without.
Yes I did. With an entire paragraph. In case you missed it:

QUOTE(Me)
Furthermore, the culprit when it comes to high prices for treatment isn't "evil greedy capitalist pigs zomg" because drugs cost the same amount in Sweden and Canada. The problem is, people using insurance to pay for the smallest things. For example, when you drop a bowling ball on your foot or are suffering from a headache, it shouldn't cost that much for a check up. The problem is, the invisible hand is thrown off by governemnt or insurance companies paying for the treatment, leading to people having no clue how much treatment actually costs. Go to a normal doctor and a routine check up will cost you, or rather, your health care provider (private or public) up to $400, maybe more, with you being left some of the costs. Then go to one that doesn't accept insurance, and instead takes Employee Health Funds, or to one of the stalls in Walmart; a check up will cost you around $30 - $40.
QUOTE
So, in a socialized system, there is little to no treatment available? Prove it.
The government is responsible for %4 of drugs in the markets, and I don't know exactly how many more drugs America produces in comparison to the rest of the world, but we both know it's highly disporportionate.

QUOTE
You forgot to add in the fact that we are overcharged here in the US, and that no matter what treatment we need we will end up with thousands of dollars in out-of-pocket expenses due to any number of the following:
I've already addressed this in my third paragraph. Don't use your damn insurance for everything.


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The Awesome One
post Jun 15 2009, 05:48 PM
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England has free health care. Each time I needed it, I got what was needed.


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Ex-PS Fanboy
post Jun 15 2009, 06:52 PM
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QUOTE(Captain Charisma @ Jun 15 2009, 05:48 PM) [snapback]1508017[/snapback]
England has free health care. Each time I needed it, I got what was needed.

Yes but the problem is people abuse that right and whenever they get a little cough they run to the hospitals and hold up the lines for an hour.
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The Awesome One
post Jun 15 2009, 08:08 PM
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QUOTE(PS-Fanboy @ Jun 15 2009, 07:52 PM) [snapback]1508037[/snapback]
QUOTE(Captain Charisma @ Jun 15 2009, 05:48 PM) [snapback]1508017[/snapback]
England has free health care. Each time I needed it, I got what was needed.

Yes but the problem is people abuse that right and whenever they get a little cough they run to the hospitals and hold up the lines for an hour.

Yea, true. Never get hurt on a friday night you will be there till morning. But, most hosipals tell you to go to a GP by thye time you walk in if there is nothing wrong with you. (Well, my one does. Fuck the others.)


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NCP
post Jun 15 2009, 08:26 PM
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I'm pretty sure it's not free in great britain. Don't you pay a little every month for it? Or maybe through your work?
Anyway list according to WHO:

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei

Note that San Marino is a really small country surrounded by Italy.


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Qdeathstar
post Jun 15 2009, 10:53 PM
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QUOTE(Heartless @ Jun 15 2009, 05:06 AM) [snapback]1507977[/snapback]
Me and my wife (to be) got into a nasty argument about health care after watching House. First mistake is, never argue with a woman. Of course I'm right damn it, America has the best health care system in the world. But what's with these idiots saying otherwise?

Kangaroos discuss emerging American health care statistics.

Compare for a moment against this page:

Oh Lord, you have forsaken me. Another Wikipedia article.

The irony here is of course that it proves that AIDs either does not exist, or simply did not plunge Africa into the millions dead deficit the 8th grade G&T geopolitical classes would like us to believe. Or sleeping sickness, adders and endemic genocide. But that's a Juice box of another diarrhea shade.

Who's the crack fiend who concocted this list anyways? Look at the WHO article:

Over here douche bag, it's in black and white. Goddamn it, Juice is gonna rape me.

It lists San Marino and Andorra and a slew of other countries I've never heard of, nevermind Oman, which I know is a fuck hole. So who's lying? AIDs deniers at Wikipedia? Some shithead who slaved away 8 years at medical school to hack up a few misdiagnosed bench marks for a country the size of a US rural township? How about you buttfungus? This may not be a rant or a rave, but an answer would be stellar. Play this in the back ground, it helps:

[youtube]aE-I0ombIEY[/youtube]

Why is it no source agrees whos right, but the US is simply wrong, even when not judged against Albania, Tansinania, Cuba or China?


I agree that America has the best medical care in the world, but not the most accessible. I think that the lack of investment in stem cell research/cloning will definately set us back and gives opportunity to other countries to overtake our quality of health care.

I own my own business so i have to pay for health insurance... it costs me around 150/mo and my dad also pays for health insurance and his is around 550/mo.


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Passionate Homo ...
post Jun 16 2009, 02:45 AM
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Hey. NHS trainee here.

I'll skip over the agendaful stuff.

Doubtless the NHS has been marred by a bunch of bad decisions. Labour initiatives to improve efficiency have been greatly detrimental to patients. But the fact is, the UK has lower infant mortality and higher life expectancy than a nation to which it is culturally very close, but that has a free-market approach to medicine. At the same time, the British pharmaceutical industry is its greatest strength in world import and export.

The US has a great capability to provide healthcare to people who can afford it. Therefore it is not the American healthcare system that is the best in the world. It is a service available on American soil. A private healthcare system exists in the UK too -- rarely considered as it's not the primary system, but not banned by an evil state either.

This argument boils down to whether medicine should be run by politicians or businessmen. It seems to completely ignore the possibility that it might be run by doctors, an idea precluded by the treatment of medicine as a private venture based on profit.

On a side note, that video about the Canadian healthcare system is exploitative and shows very little knowledge of medicine.


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Qdeathstar
post Jun 16 2009, 03:56 AM
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This argument boils down to whether medicine should be run by politicians or businessmen. It seems to completely ignore the possibility that it might be run by doctors, an idea precluded by the treatment of medicine as a private venture based on profit.


Whats the difference between a doctor and a businessman? I'm sure they are both trying to make a profit. Plus, a doctor merely finds the desease, he doesn't cure it. Do you want doctors to run the pharmaceutical research companies too? Or what about the machines that are build to make X-rays, catscans, ect? Do you want the Doctors to run that?

What the fuck are you talking about Mello. Everyone is a businessman, even the patient. Give the average patient a chance he'll find every possible way there is to sue the doctor for malpractice.

Politicans are businessmen too, they aren't looking to make money necessarily though, there currency is far more valuable. They exchange favors for influence... Besides that, Politicians don't care about running a health care system because running it well or not, they can't be specifically held responsible for the short commings of such system. If it's a flunky is a flunky for the government as a whole.

On the other hand if a CEO turns in bad quarter after bad quarter you can bet he won't be hanging around long...


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post Jun 16 2009, 04:36 AM
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And here lies the problem. A system where the end is not the treatment of disease (the machinations required for which you seem to wildly underestimate) but rather the generation of profit, only loosely correlating with the treatment of disease.

Medicine is not a system which can fully be defined in terms of INPUT (patient presenting pathology) PROCESS 1 (monkey in a white coat defines problem) PROCESS 2 (appropriate pharmaceutical applied) OUTPUT (patient no longer presenting pathology).

The doctors are the thinkers, the people that understand how medicine functions as a concept and as a reality. They work with pharmaceuticals (the territory of chemists and biomedical scientists), sure, but that's not all they do. Most importantly, they don't do their job just to increase turnover.

Hard as it is for the callous to believe, I went into this line of work to help people. Much as it requires a financial base to do so, you have to recognise that keeping people alive is not cheap, and lancing boils for good money doesn't save lives like expensive heart surgery does. Therefore more profit does not lead to better medical care.

I'll gladly concede that in a world where we can assume the worst of everyone, businessmen are the lesser of two evils. But given we're priviliged by being human, there is a third way. I hope that the free marketeers can see past the dollar signs in their eyes, and the British politicians can peer around the pillars of pomp and circumstance for long enough to see that in terms of medicine it's better to put reduction of suffering before their personal views on free enterprise.

Although what do I know? I'm only 80% of the way to a joint degree in medicine and surgery, I can't even find a disease. Maybe if I take a freshman economics class I'll know enough to talk down to people who've only been polite about it.


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Skinny†
post Jun 16 2009, 06:16 AM
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QUOTE(Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester @ Jun 16 2009, 12:45 PM) [snapback]1508114[/snapback]
This argument boils down to whether medicine should be run by politicians or businessmen. It seems to completely ignore the possibility that it might be run by doctors, an idea precluded by the treatment of medicine as a private venture based on profit.
You want GM to run your car insurance, as well?


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post Jun 16 2009, 02:00 PM
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QUOTE(Skinny. @ Jun 16 2009, 02:16 AM) [snapback]1508133[/snapback]
QUOTE(Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester @ Jun 16 2009, 12:45 PM) [snapback]1508114[/snapback]
This argument boils down to whether medicine should be run by politicians or businessmen. It seems to completely ignore the possibility that it might be run by doctors, an idea precluded by the treatment of medicine as a private venture based on profit.
You want GM to run your car insurance, as well?


What a bad example. You have successfully extrapolated the relation of the doctor to the industry yet you have not taken care to understand that position when you assumed it was equal to being a car manufacturer/company. Car manufacturers/companies pump out cars they think will sell because they appeal to people aesthetically or pragmatically due to research, etc. I see no reason to have one advise what insurance I should have. Insurance is a matter that gives security to the individual should he in fact get in an incident.

Your possible thinking behind this is that if GM advised crappy insurance because they know their product is faulty is moot. Doctors did not invent the viruses or the pathogens. Doctors only have their integrity and reputation at stake when it comes to how they treat a patient correctly. Doctors try to find the best explanation for an illness, test it to see if they are correct, research cures and then either facilitate them or explain to the patient the options. The doctor is much more intimate.

You can ignore this mello and continue unabated.

Edit--Besides, this is quite off-topic.

This post has been edited by punxtr: Jun 16 2009, 02:00 PM


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Skinny†
post Jun 16 2009, 02:43 PM
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QUOTE(punxtr @ Jun 17 2009, 12:00 AM) [snapback]1508152[/snapback]
<insert two inflated paragraphs, that only needed to be one or two sentences, here>

You're correct, a car dealer providing insurance would be a better example. My point was to say, what the fuck do doctors know about finance?

Do you want car insurace given to you by a car dealer?


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Passionate Homo ...
post Jun 16 2009, 06:18 PM
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QUOTE(Skinny. @ Jun 16 2009, 03:43 PM) [snapback]1508156[/snapback]
QUOTE(punxtr @ Jun 17 2009, 12:00 AM) [snapback]1508152[/snapback]
<insert two inflated paragraphs, that only needed to be one or two sentences, here>

You're correct, a car dealer providing insurance would be a better example. My point was to say, what the fuck do doctors know about finance?

Do you want car insurace given to you by a car dealer?
Sorry for being quite so uppity to your masters of the universe, but may I suggest that beyond the understanding of running an institution (and if you think this is beyond doctors, might I suggest you underestimate the rigours of our training), knowledge of how to help people is infinitely more important?

To put it simply, unless you've come up with a shining new point since your last post:

To agree with me would be to agree that patient care comes first in medicine.

To disagree with me would be to profess that profit is the first goal of medicine (and that this is the ultimate goal, not a means to an end).

If you accept these premises, and still disagree with me, then that's fine, but there's no use me talking to you. As a future healthcare professional, I have no interest in discussing endless financial development with no increase in health or happiness.


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drive carfuly,because every secend a shrak can teleport itself to your car, and try to drive your car (if you have one) with shark in it.
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post Jun 18 2009, 05:38 PM
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The medical system the US's is no where near the best and if you can't see why that is there is no point in you discussing this topic as you really have no concept of how the medical system works in the US or other countries.

The point that mello makes but for some reason didn't seem to pick up on, is that if businessmen run the medical industry to maximise profit, which by definition is finding the price level that profit maximises this isn't the one that makes the product or service available to the most people.

Why it would be better if the doctors run the medical system is that they can make it more efficient as they would understand the problems therefore saving money without reducing patient care and in some cases increasing patient care. Whereas business men just want to make money with a reasonable product.

To be fair there is vast differences in areas of the medical systems and lumping them all together as one really makes no sense anyway, drug development is a far flight from invasive surgery.


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post Jun 18 2009, 07:48 PM
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QUOTE(Passionate Homo Sapiens Ingester @ Jun 16 2009, 04:36 AM) [snapback]1508128[/snapback]
And here lies the problem. A system where the end is not the treatment of disease (the machinations required for which you seem to wildly underestimate) but rather the generation of profit, only loosely correlating with the treatment of disease.


You think doctors don't want to make a profit? Also, i disagree with your analysis of the US health care system...

How much is a life worth? Some say a lot of money. If your providing a life saving treatment, isn't it reasonable to expect the same value in return?

I mean, how much is a hamburger worth? It provides food and entertainment value. You pay 3.00 for it because the three dollars you pay has the same value as the value the hamburger provides.

You arguing that although the hamburger is worth 3.00 you should only have to pay 30cent for it, because McDonalds has the responsibility to feed the hungry. And they don't.

People lived to the ripe old age of about 35 before modern health care, now they live till they are 80 on average.. how much money is doubling your lifespan worth?

I know this is a corny argument but as far as capitalism goes, you pay for what you get.. and in this case you get twice as many years added on to your life. Sure there are other factors to play in life span, but you'd have to admit that health care is one of the single most important factors.


QUOTE

Medicine is not a system which can fully be defined in terms of INPUT (patient presenting pathology) PROCESS 1 (monkey in a white coat defines problem) PROCESS 2 (appropriate pharmaceutical applied) OUTPUT (patient no longer presenting pathology).
Yes, so? What?


QUOTE

The doctors are the thinkers, the people that understand how medicine functions as a concept and as a reality.


Don't know about that.. who came up with Penicillin, not a MD, that was a biologist... who comes up with almost all the life-saving medicine now days? Doctors? No... chemists and bimedical scientists.

All doctors do is diagnose. Congratulations, you have an infection. Lets keep it clean and hope for the best!

Thats all a doctor could do without pharmacologists.

QUOTE
Most importantly, they don't do their job just to increase turnover.
Having them run things wouldn't result in better outcomes. A life with no antibiotics wouldn't result in a better outcome...

QUOTE

Hard as it is for the callous to believe, I went into this line of work to help people. Much as it requires a financial base to do so, you have to recognise that keeping people alive is not cheap,


Yes, so stop complaining about high health care prices.

QUOTE
lancing boils for good money doesn't save lives like expensive heart surgery does.
That's the doctors who you want to run things doing that... Sure some doctors work for hospitals and don't have control over what stuff costs, but its not like doctors with private offices are doing this stuff for free.

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Therefore more profit does not lead to better medical care.


Where do you think Drug companies get money to finance there research from?


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I'll gladly concede that in a world where we can assume the worst of everyone, businessmen are the lesser of two evils. But given we're priviliged by being human, there is a third way. I hope that the free marketeers can see past the dollar signs in their eyes, and the British politicians can peer around the pillars of pomp and circumstance for long enough to see that in terms of medicine it's better to put reduction of suffering before their personal views on free enterprise.
Canada's health care system works great.

QUOTE

Although what do I know? I'm only 80% of the way to a joint degree in medicine and surgery, I can't even find a disease. Maybe if I take a freshman economics class I'll know enough to talk down to people who've only been polite about it.


You don't know to much about it, obviously. Theory is nice, isn't it. I'm not an expert on but my opinion is that self interest always produces the best results in the long run. (and i'll defend this point if you bring up counter examples)



QUOTE(psychÝ @ Jun 18 2009, 05:38 PM) [snapback]1508512[/snapback]
The medical system the US's is no where near the best and if you can't see why that is there is no point in you discussing this topic as you really have no concept of how the medical system works in the US or other countries.


Your logic is outstanding. Thanks for playing.

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The point that mello makes but for some reason didn't seem to pick up on, is that if businessmen run the medical industry to maximise profit, which by definition is finding the price level that profit maximises this isn't the one that makes the product or service available to the most people.
But that is the point where value in = value out.

QUOTE

Why it would be better if the doctors run the medical system is that they can make it more efficient as they would understand the problems therefore saving money without reducing patient care and in some cases increasing patient care.


Why can't they do that now? I'm sure that if their was a will by Doctors to make things more efficient, businessmen would be all over it BECAUSE IT WOULD REDUCE COST (and increase profit). Revenue - cost = profit.

They don't have to decrease the revenue just because they decreased the cost.

QUOTE
To be fair there is vast differences in areas of the medical systems and lumping them all together as one really makes no sense anyway, drug development is a far flight from invasive surgery.


not really/how?


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The Awesome One
post Jun 18 2009, 08:23 PM
Post #19


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QUOTE(NCP @ Jun 15 2009, 09:26 PM) [snapback]1508069[/snapback]
I'm pretty sure it's not free in great britain. Don't you pay a little every month for it? Or maybe through your work?
Anyway list according to WHO:

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei

Note that San Marino is a really small country surrounded by Italy.

Give you that, but its not that much. And its actually a tax...


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post Jun 18 2009, 08:31 PM
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QUOTE(Captain.Charisma @ Jun 18 2009, 09:23 PM) [snapback]1508534[/snapback]
QUOTE(NCP @ Jun 15 2009, 09:26 PM) [snapback]1508069[/snapback]
I'm pretty sure it's not free in great britain. Don't you pay a little every month for it? Or maybe through your work?
Anyway list according to WHO:

1 France
2 Italy
3 San Marino
4 Andorra
5 Malta
6 Singapore
7 Spain
8 Oman
9 Austria
10 Japan
11 Norway
12 Portugal
13 Monaco
14 Greece
15 Iceland
16 Luxembourg
17 Netherlands
18 United Kingdom
19 Ireland
20 Switzerland
21 Belgium
22 Colombia
23 Sweden
24 Cyprus
25 Germany
26 Saudi Arabia
27 United Arab Emirates
28 Israel
29 Morocco
30 Canada
31 Finland
32 Australia
33 Chile
34 Denmark
35 Dominica
36 Costa Rica
37 United States of America
38 Slovenia
39 Cuba
40 Brunei

Note that San Marino is a really small country surrounded by Italy.

Give you that, but its not that much. And its actually a tax...

It's your national insurance contributions which help fund the NHS and I'm probably wrong - but I think it's about 6% of your wages/income.

This post has been edited by marney1: Jun 18 2009, 08:32 PM
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